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March 3, 1998

Good Morning from the Zundelsite:

Canadian Internet Provider, FTCNET, owned by Bernard Klatt, is under siege by the Simon Wiesenthal Center, Sol Litmann, and their fellow travellers.

Bernard Klatt, computer expert and techno-whiz, who lives and works in the small British Columbia town of Oliver, operates the only American-style, censorship-free Canadian Internet server. Now Bernard is in trouble with our well-known Canadian self-appointed censors.

It started out rather mildly, Titled "Small town bristles at being branded Canada's hate capital," an Associated Press article reported:

TORONTO (AP) - It wasn't the sort of phone call that makes a mayor's day. Linda Larson was told her little town had just been branded at a news conference as "the hate capital of Canada."

"I was angry - and astounded that somebody would make such a foolish comment,'' said Larson, who does double-duty as mayor and owner of a wool shop in Oliver, British Columbia. The town of 4,000 used to be known as Canada's cantaloupe capital.

The denunciation of Oliver came from Sol Littman, director of the Canadian branch of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. At a news conference in January, he said a businessman in the town was providing Internet web sites for groups in North America and Europe that were spreading vicious anti-Semitic and racist diatribes."

The story played rather differently in the International News Page, Globe and Mail, Feb. 20, 1998: Titled "French find B.C. link to racist group" - and subtitled "13 charged in Europe with hate crimes for Internet site available through Canadian provider", the article reported:

Police have made 13 arrests in France and Britain in an effort to dismantle a racist Internet site, but they have failed to close it (...)

"It is extremely violent. It is rare to have such a high level of violence in France," said Marc Knobel, Paris-based researcher for the Wiesenthal Institute.

The arrests were major news in France yesterday, with France 2, one of the dominant television networks, dedicating five minutes to its nightly newscast to the affair. Canada figured prominently."

There's more, including a picture of a masked man with a raised gun, behind him - what else?- a big, fat swastika. (...)

Bernard Klatt's attitude is unruffled and cool. Here are a few of the answers Bernard gave to both media and individuals, in response to their hysterical charges:

Question: "Mr. Klatt, would you please provide comment on the following questions:

"You provide internet access to hate groups all over the world, why?"

Klatt: "The premise of your question is flawed. I'm not aware of any groups that consider themselves as a 'hate' group. If someone calls CHBC a 'hate' group because they disagree with the viewpoints and opinions expressed, does that make CHBC a 'hate' group? It seems that nowdays all it takes to be labelled as a 'hate' group is to express a viewpoint that someone else or some other group hates. What criteria do you use to determine whether to apply the label of 'hate' group? What are your qualifications to make such a determination or designation?

"For example, the Aryan Dating Page is labelled as a 'hate' site by Hatewatch.org, but none of the dozens of Chinese-only or Jewish-only dating websites qualify, although they are also race specific.

"We do not discriminate against any group or indviduals that wish to obtain web hosting services for content that is legal in Canada. As a member of Electronic Frontier Canada ( www.efc.ca ) we support the stated "policy of common carriage requirements for all network providers so that all forms of speech and expression, no matter how controversial, will be carried without discrimination."

"I think you'll find that ISPs, in Canada as with everywhere else, try to distance themselves from law enforcement. In other words, we will cooperate with police, but don't want to put ourselves in the position of making decisions on the legality or otherwise of their customer's webpage content (decisions we are not qualified to make)."

Question: "Do you consider (upsetting web pages) socially damaging?"

Klatt: "A better person to ask would be Michael Newman (editor/publisher of the Oliver Chronicle) who falsely accuses me of promoting these web sites. Apparently he doesn't think (they are hate sites), since he recently published several thousand copies of the web page addresses of the 'hate' web sites that Sol Littman was complaining about, and distributed them around the local community.

"I think Ken McVay of (www.nizkor.org ) has given this question some thought where he quotes from "Fuzzy Logic" by Matthew Friedman in a recent Usenet posting:

["In short, Littman's principle complaint is not with _content_, but with the potential of the Internet to enfranchise groups and individuals that were silenced by the rigid patterns of authority and prestige prior to the information revolution. His problem is with the apparent lack of authority, a manifestation of the Net's decentralized discourse and distributed structure. Dismissing Internet civil libertarians as children --implying, of course, that they require steadying adult supervision from people like Sol Littman -- he attacks the very interactivity that provides activists like Ken McVay with the opportunity to strike back at hate. Despite the Nizkor Projects successes, Littman believes that it doesn't go far enough, and that McVay's tactics are an invitation to disorder. ... "What people like Littman fear is that on the Net authority will pass from traditional power centres to the users themselves...."}

Question: "There've been several arrests made in France, the service provider has been shut down, you've been identified as the only provider left who's servicing hate groups. Do you service them for the money, or do you share their point of views?"

Klatt: "Are you sure the ISP has been shut down - or just their web page? I know that other ISP's in Canada carry some of the same same websites that Sol Littman complains about, and the Simon Wiesenthal Centre claims there are 'hundreds' of them in the USA.

"Yes, we do receive compensation for web hosting services provided. Any statements on their webpages implying our support for their content or cause is incorrect. The only 'support' we provide is our recognition of their right to express their opinions and viewpoints (whatever they are).

Question: "My name is Greg Middleton. I am a reporter at the Province newspaper. We've talked before. ... Have you taken the charlemagne hammerskins off? I couldn't find them."

Klatt: "I think they're still there. We wouldn't likely remove or modify customer website content on our own initiative without some legal basis to do so."

Question: "It seems like you are about to come under some more fire -- Al Dutton is coming up your way to hold a workshop and a petition has gone to the AG from residents in Oliver. What do you say to all this?"

Klatt: "I'd like to meet Mr. Dutton. Do you know when he might be in our area?"

Question: "Hello my name is Laura Palmer. I am the producer of CBC radio's afternoon show. . . . What do you say to the critics who think that Fairview Technologies should be shut down?"

Klatt: "Do the 'critics' have any legal basis for such an action? They're certainly welcome to express their opinion, but it's only an opinion unless they can get a law enforcement agency to back them up.

"The Internet is being used in a free and open manner by people around the world to express a wide range of viewpoints on every subject imaginable. The Supreme Court of Canada has upheld the right to express any viewpoint, no matter how UNpopular that viewpoint is, as long as it does not advocate physical harm.

"The United Nations Declaration of Human Rights states that: 'Everyone has the right of freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinion without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.'"

Question: "Why do you think you should be allowed to continue with your operation?"

Klatt: "Because Fairview Tech Ctr Ltd. abides by all BC and Canadian laws, and we're ready to listen to the police at any time."

Question: "What kind of response have you had in your own community? "

Klatt: "Surprise at the intense negative media focus on our community. We continue to get phone calls, emails and letters from many people expressing their support for our position to defend freedom of speech on the Internet."

Question: "How has the publicity affected your business...and your personal life?"

Klatt: "We continue to add new local subscribers and the ongoing publicity brings us new web site hosting customers, including some from foreign countries that don't enjoy the right of free speech for unpopular opinions."

Question: "I understand the Mayor of Oliver has circulated a petition asking the attorney general to take action against you. How do you respond?"

Klatt: "There was no petition directed against me. It merely asks the BC (Attonrey General) to investigate regulating several categories of Internet material that were of concern to the person who initiated the petition."

Question: "What will you do if the B.C. Attorney general tries to shut you down?"

Klatt: "I have written to the BC AG expressing my willingness to address any specific concerns they may have. We've cooperated with RCMP Internet investigations in the past and will continue to do so.

"The Internet is not a legal vacuum. Service providers are not tasked with responsibility for law enforcement. End users (authors, customers, clients) must retain responsibility for the content they place on the Internet, whether legal, or illegal. The courts and police agencies must retain responsibility for law enforcement."

Question: "What about those who find the material offensive?"

Klatt: "Have the 'critics' ever attempted to contact any of the website authors and express their concerns directly? Not that I know of.

"Why wouldn't they do what people have always done when they encounter something they consider offensive? Switch the channel, walk away, turn it off, etc.. Are they unable to avert their gaze? Does it come to them without them requesting it?

"Those who have nothing to hide don't mind a debate - even an acrimonious one. Those who DO have something to hide often try to refuse to allow their opponents a chance to express their views."

Thought for the Day:

"We don't have a lot of terrorism in Canada - in the past several decades, you can count on one hand terrorist incidents involving Canada or Canadians."

(David Jones, NOW On/Vol 15, No. 50, News Front/Wired World)