December 18, 1997

Good Morning from the Zundelsite:

Last night I was already asleep when I received a call meant to update me on the CHRC hearings yesterday, and I am afraid that in my fatigued state I did not get the details straight. It's all a great big fog.

Therefore, I am going to wait to report on what happened in the courtroom yesterday as well as today until I have the story. I only know that Irene Zundel was introduced to cross-examination, which is to continue today, and that she has asked for an attorney ". . . to protect her interests."

Apparently, that is against the rules in cross-examination matters, but so much else is being handled in the against-the-rules-mode in these CHRC proceedings that nothing will surprise us. She will probably get an attorney, which will make these hearings much more cumbersome, lengthy and costly - not just for Ernst, but for the taxpayers of Canada.

Meanwhile, I thought I would give you an update on my latest venture into the "fight-censorship" internet conference, the group that was instrumental in doing the Zundel-mirroring almost two years ago, which flushed out the Wiesenthalers as one of the most brazen censorship organizations.

Jamie McCarthy, of course, shrieks "Liar!" every time my name comes up and every time I do a post, but I have studiously avoided taking up his repeat invitation to split hairs. The rest of the participants have been at least polite (or silent) to my presence on this list, with one or two exceptions.

One of the more interesting back-and-forth on this f-c list has been with one fellow who calls himself "Lizard." Lizard is Jewish, of course, and Ingrid is Aryan - so let's call this the beginning of yet another "historic exchange" between opposing forces:

Lizard wrote, referring to the previously discussed topic that Revisionism equals 100 % Nazism:

". . . (w)hich has no bearing on your right to express your ideas, which is absolute, or the disgust I currently feel towards the ADL and other organizations which would claim to represent me based solely on a shared religious/cultural heritage, which is also absolute."

Ingrid:

"Would you then volunteer to be an intervenor as a Jew, stating that you resent the censorship that comes from Jewish quarters? We need Jews saying that not all Jews are agreeing with the ADL/Holocaust Promotion Lobby style thought control."

Lizard: "If you wish a quote from me, then, here it is. I request it be used in full:

"I consider revisionists to be liars at best, eager advocates of genocide at worst. This is, however, utterly and totally without bearing on their right to express their ideas freely and without threat of legal action against them or against those who publish, broadcast, or post their views.

They have no right to use resources which belong to another (i.e, they have no 'right' to be printed in a newspaper or published in a magazine which does not wish to provide them with a platform), but any resources they own, or have permission to use, or have purchased for use, they should be permitted to use just as anyone else may.

A free society does not ban ideas because they are offensive, or even because they are flat-out wrong. (And revisionism is both) There is a much, much, greater threat to my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness from laws banning 'hate speech' than there is from that tiny minority which wishes to express such speech.

The ADL, the JDL, the SWC, and others do not speak for me, or, I daresay, for most Jews, when they advocate censorship or support laws which are censorious in nature or intent."

(Here I only want to add that I did not change a comma except to correct a tiny typo, but that I broke up a chunky paragraph to conform to my ZGram style.)

Lizard then goes on to say:

"I am not going to respond to your other points, simply because the rightness or wrongness of your ideas is not relevant to your right to express them, and this list is devoted to freedom of expression, not discussion of the ideas expressed."

Ingrid (after an interval, and responding to another discussion thread):

"In many countries questioning the Holocaust is now a criminal offense. People can question any Holocaust on earth - except the Jewish Holocaust? People can express doubt about the Holy Ghost - but not about the Jewish Holocaust?

Does that not make you ask: "WHY is the Jewish Holocaust off limits?"

Lizard:

"As usual, there is a mix of truth and falsehood. Yes, questioning the Holocaust is not popular. Neither is flat-Earthism, for much the same reason. But the Holocaust is not the only 'sacred cow' -- most societies have areas which have been placed legally off-limits (and I disagree with all such limits I know of). England still had blasphemy laws on the book -- but they apply only to Christian religion, NOT to Islam or Judaism or Hinduism. By the same token, England provides a shelter for Salman Rushdie, whose works questioning Islam got him a death sentence in Iran and other Arab nations. France has many laws prohibiting criticism of the government, as does Singapore. Japan has refused to confront much of its own history, as well.

Is it wrong that there are laws banning discussion of the Holocaust except to condemn it? Yes. Is it the only thing which has such laws? No. Do such laws imply anything, such as some sort of grand conspiracy or wicked plot? Not really. But they do function as a dangerous first step towards ever-broader censorship -- once you have decided it is acceptable to ban speech/ideas which are grossly offensive to 99% of the populace, it becomes easier to ban speech/ideas which are grossly offensive to 98% of the populace...and so on until only speech supported by a majority is permissible, and even that is threatened.

I do not defend Zundel, or Frieden, or Rimland, or any of their ilk. I do defend their *rights*, because history has shown us what happens when anyone -- even such as they -- are denied the basic rights which are inherent in the nature of being human.

Furthermore, any society so corrupt, ignorant, and foolish as to be seriously threatened by such outlandish ideas as they espouse is a society which deserves to perish."

I still haven't received an answer to my request to Lizard to volunteer to be a Zundel intervenor, or to at least give us an affidavit stating some or all of the above. Maybe we are lucky to get one or the other - or both.

Meanwhile, stay tuned. There's more to come.

Ingrid

Thought for the Day:

"A dollar for Zionism today means a dead child in Palestine or Lebanon tomorrow."

(Ernst Zundel, as obligingly quoted by Jamie McCarthy on the fight-censorship list, trying to convince the group of Ernst's less-than-honorable intentions)

Comments? E-Mail: irimland@cts.com

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