Below is an interview that Ernst gave about a week ago to Australia's largest Internet magazine, Internet Australia. I am bringing it here for your perusal and edification.
Question: As you explain, your site has been subjected to various attempts at censorship. Please outline the main challenges that the Zundelsite has faced.
Ernst Zundel: Pressure was brought against our first server in California, which led to the abrupt cancellation of our website. The pressure came from the two largest customers, both Jewish, who threatened the server that they would yank their accounts if he did not kick us off immediately. Of course this would never do in a grocery store!
We had told these people exactly who we were and had been assured by this server company that they would never cancel anyone due to content. The company did not live up to that promise. We were notified by phone call five minutes before they pulled the plug on us. We were not even allowed to put up a link to tell our readers where they could find us or why we had been terminated.
Our current server came under heavy pressure in January of this year right after we announced an electronic debate with a politically antagonistic website, Nizkor. Censorship was almost instantaneous. At first, the story that played in the traditional world media was that Compuserve was canceling news groups because of "concerns over pornography," and hints were dropped that websites would be next. Very quickly it became evident that the target was the Revisionist Zundelsite and that the censorship strategies came right out of the Simon Wiesenthal Center.
We have been told informally that Telekom in Germany blocked 1500 customer sites at Web Communications solely in order to prevent German people from accessing the Zundelsite, which contains material relating to the Holocaust forbidden to be researched and debated in Germany. Very quickly, things became extremely uncomfortable for this new server as well. So far, he has stood firm against all pressure and even defied the German Telekom ban.
Question: Various sources have mentioned Canada's anti-hate speech' laws. How does this affect the Zundelsite? Would it make the contents illegal?
Ernst Zundel: We do not publish material that is hateful or illegal-certainly not in Canada. We are engaged in a legal and determined quest of researching and reporting truthful history as we find it.
The most troublesome problems for us have come not from official sources but from the Internet terrorists, some of whom seem to be at it full time-anonymous people who have repeatedly tried to sabotage us by destroying our e-mail, copying and then altering it, redirecting it, quoting our material out of context, sending us megabytes of garbage and, worst of all, sending out press releases and news group posts using my name in various altered forms with nasty comments and distorted messages, some of them semi-pornographic. The idea is to demonize me and make me look like both a fool and fiend. This is a traditional tactic and was employed against me many times in the print media in the past 30 years.
Question: The issue of trying to censor an online medium with local laws is somewhat difficult, as opponents of the CDA (Community Decency Act) in the USA pointed out. Does this also make it difficult for Canada's laws to suppress the Zundelsite? How about your overseas mirrors?
Ernst Zundel: The spontaneous mirroring was a resounding success. It taught the world that there were technically competent censorship busters out there who would not tolerate special interests to dictate what could be posted on the Net. No one with a mirror site anywhere was criminally charged.
We will know in a few weeks what the Canadian system has to say about this latest attempt at censorship of the Internet, especially the Zundelsite, because I face a defamation suit in civil court, which will be a back-door attempt at censorship and intimidation by using private parties who see themselves aggrieved.
As of today, I have not been criminally charged in Canada for anything posted on my website, because I try very hard to comply with Canadian laws, even though my website is in the USA. I only located the site there to avoid hassles, not to contravene Canadian laws. So far, I was proven correct in this move. I expect at least an attempt at an interlocutory decree to prevent me from running my website.
Question: The operator of Nizkor claims at his site to be opposed to online censorship laws, and says that he prefers to debate you in the open. Do you share this view? Do you believe that Nizkor has a right to express themselves too?
Certainly. I am in favor of Nizkor or anyone else having the right to present their version of how they perceive history-be it the so-called "Holocaust," politically incorrect ideas in general, National Socialism in particular etc. etc.
I only want that same right to present my viewpoint fairly, reasonably and honestly, not under constant threat of criminal prosecution. I do sometimes wish Nizkor would not be so abusive-insinuating motives which simply are not there but seem merely to mirror their own paranoia.
Question: Nizkor also claim that debating each other on the Web is like shifting icebergs. Would you ever debate McVay in a more immediate forum such as Usenet or IRC?
Ernst Zundel: I am amazed they still mention "debate". They have vehemently denounced the term and claim that a "debate" was our own invention. They claim they merely want to "link," so we will let them link.
I will debate McVay in person anywhere anytime in public. I would like for McVay to submit in person to an interview on one of my radio or TV shows about his version of the Holocaust. I will gladly appear with him on other people's radio or TV shows to debate him in a civilized fashion. I will debate him on a university campus or in any other respectable public forum. I am not afraid of debate and would welcome a debate. I have asked for a debate on the Holocaust for two decades.
Debate McVay or other Nizkor folks on Usenet or IRC? No. The issues before us are complex and serious and do not lend themselves to conduct such as Jamie McCarthy once described as a "party" where people might run around having fun "with lampshades on their heads."
Millions of peoples' lives or their deaths are the issue here. People were hanged for "crimes" that were apparently never committed. For people who went through the war as I did as a child, Revisionism is very serious business. It's not a spitting contest. The newsgroups are unpleasant places where people are basically shouted down, character-assassinated, vilified and libeled-with little real "debating" taking place.
Question: Some political groups seem to do nothing more than preach to the converted. Does the Zundelsite really convince people to support you?
Ernst Zundel: Absolutely. You see, for the first time in 50+ years' worth of post-war vilification of the German people and nation, it is possible for many people to get to read and to reflect on an alternate point of view about Germany's role in recent history. The Zündelsite was conceived as a convenient means for total newcomers to find out about our way of thinking. Ordinary mail is sometimes considered intrusive. People might resent receiving a newsletter, tape or booklet with unfamiliar political content. The Zündelsite functions like a library. The public can inform themselves at their own choice and leisure. The "shelves" are there; people can choose to look at material or by-pass it if it offends them. This is still virgin territory, historically speaking. Especially young people are amazed that we are not a bunch of low-brow skinheads shouting racial slogans but rational people who offer a respectably body of very serious forensic, historical and scientific research and evidence that calls into question the traditional dogma of the Holocaust and related subjects. The Net is an efficient tool to get our viewpoint looked at or heard. We expose Revisionism to people we could not reach in any other way. A website is extremely economical. We save literally thousands of dollars per month while getting in touch with thousands of mainly young people the world over - youngsters of good mental caliber. Various sources have claimed that as many as half of standard Internet users are young, well-educated, upwardly mobile - in other words, potential future leaders.
Question: I would expect that you receive a lot of abusive feedback. How do you deal with the flames? Do you reply to everyone?
Ernst Zundel: You could not be more wrong. When we first started posting our version of history on the Zundelsite, we received four hate mail letters for every letter that was positive. Now this is totally reversed.
Almost all our mail is positive; a lot of it is actually emotional and often out-and-out ecstatic. We are amazed at the thoughtful, serious inquiries we constantly receive from university students and scholars from as far away as Malaysia and South Africa. Very serious Revisionist research is now going on all over the world-research that can be grounded, backed, bolstered and double-checked from documents downloaded from our website.
The occasional hate mail letter is rare and usually contains some choice language with little content or rationale. We don't reply to hate mail and to spams. It is a waste of time.
Question: Is the effort to regulate the flow of pornography on the Net analogous to the distribution of political material? What is common to the debate? Do you believe that the CDA (Community Decency Act) had an agenda to work against more than just pornography?
Ernst Zundel: The answer is yes. You hit the nail right on the head. The fight against pornography has always been the cloak the tyrant likes to wear. There is NO common dimension to our Revisionist material and pornography.
The ploy is very old, however. Traditionally, the enemies of freedom the world over have always lumped "hate literature" as they like to call it - I guess because they hate the truth that it contains! - and pornography together. In various police departments and customs offices in Canada we have so-called "Hate Literature and Pornography" sections to fix in people's minds the notion that the two terms are equally dirty - and interchangeable.
The pairing of the terms is not coincidence. The claim that children will be hurt is not coincidence. It rouses the emotions. A psychological warfare technique is employed. The CDA (Community Decency Act) was rammed through US Congress in ways a similar law was never forced down people's throats regarding other media such as radio, TV or print. The enemies of freedom knew all too well what they were doing when rousing the fundamentalist spirit. The censors traditionally like to enlist "decent people" as dupes in their censorship games.
Question: What is your attitude to the spamming efforts of Dan Gannon?
Ernst Zundel: I am not in direct touch with Dan Gannon and did not even know that he was spamming. Having been on the receiving end of spams, however, I would be the last person to advocate spamming. It is a childish act.
Question: Are there any other comments or observations that you would like to add?
Ernst Zundel: Just this. Come see for yourself. Make up your own mind. Don't take somebody else's word for what we say and do. . . "
End of interview. Go have yourself a happy weekend.
Ingrid
Thought for the Day:
"Our law teaches us that the wealth of the future will be according to the measure of the sacrifices of the past."'
From "Gazeta de West," a Romanian Nationalist publication.
Comments? E-Mail: irimland@cts.com