Gilad vs Lenni

[zgrams at zgrams.zundelsite.org]

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This is a very revealing email exchange between two Jews, Gilad 
Atzmon and Lenni Brenner.  Gilad is anti-Zionist, Lenni is 
pro-Zionist.  Enjoy!

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New York, February 9, 2007

Lenni: Hi, Gilad.  People tell me so many things about you, that I 
decided to get some answers straight from the horse's mouth, as we 
Yanks say.

Gilad: Hi Lenni, I do appreciate it!

Lenni: Are you a Christian?

Gilad: Not that it is your business (in case you didn't know, 
Christianity is not pedophilia, it is allowed these days), however, I 
am an ex Jew. I didn't formally join any organised religion and this 
includes: Islam or Christianity as well as your UK Bundist friends' 
version of Talmudic Marxism (a religion rather than an ideology).

Lenni: Was Jesus human only, or divine in whole or part?

Gilad: What a pathetic question,  Lenni. How am I supposed to know? 
Do you know? Having been trained in philosophy, I will try to help 
you to refine your question.

What you want to ask is whether I BELIEVE that Jesus was divine.

My answer, Mr. Brenner, is very very simple. I do not engage in 
questions having to do with divinity. And my own belief is irrelevant 
because I am not religious. Yet, I do respect the FACT that very many 
people around me believe that Jesus was divine. Unlike you and your 
UK friends, I do respect other people's beliefs. In fact I respect 
any form of spiritual activity. I admire people who are inspired by 
divinity. I admire Torah Jews, who are the only noticeable Jewish 
collective resistance to Zionism. In case you ask yourself where I 
find divinity, my answer is very simple: Coltrane, Stravinsky and 
Bach, but this changes often.

Lenni: Was he (Jesus) the messiah? Is he coming again? Do you accept 
the New Testament as divinely inspired?

Gilad: Lenni, do I look like the Pope? How am I supposed to know 
whether Jesus was the Messiah? Again, do you know the answers? My 
affair with Jesus is rather metaphysical. I regard Jesus as a 
critical ethical awakening. For me Christ is all about loving your 
neighbour. Jesus is the birth of western universal humanism (as we 
know it). Following Hegel, I am inspired by the notion of Otherness, 
and 'Master Slave Dialectic'. However, the notion of Otherness is 
nothing but Christ's heritage. I suggest that you think about it for 
a while.

I would like to mention as well that your dismissal of Christianity 
and religion in general is rather disconcerting. However, without me 
being Christian, I must insist to remind you and your half a dozen UK 
followers that the days when Jews chased Christians are over.

Lenni: Did you write:

"I would suggest that perhaps we should face it once and for all; the 
Jews were responsible for the killing of Jesus who, by the way, was 
himself a Palestinian Jew. But then two questions should be asked:

1 - How is it that people living today feel accountable or chased for 
a crime committed by their great great ancestors almost 2,000 ago? I 
assume that those Jews who get angry when blamed for killing Jesus 
are those who identify themselves with Jesus's killers. Those who 
would commit this murderous act today.

Those Jews are called Zionists and they are already advancing into 
their sixth decade of inhuman crimes against the Palestinian people 
and the Arab world.  Zionism, for those who do not know, is a 
repetition of the darkest age of the Jewish Biblical era."

Gilad: Yes indeed, these are my words and I stand by them.

Lenni: Does any living Jew have any responsibility for Jesus's death?

Gilad: Lenni, did you lose your capability to grasp a very simple 
text? I would really like you to present just how my text implies 
that I accuse contemporary Jews for killing Christ or for being 
responsible for it. In fact the text says the complete opposite. I 
ask: "How is it that people living today feel accountable or chased 
for a crime committed by their great great ancestors almost 2,000 
ago?" In other words, I find it astonishing that people today happen 
to be offended by such accusations.

Lenni: Am I responsible? Do I have to atone for his death? Do I have 
to accept that he rose from the dead?

Gilad: Lenni, do I look like a shrink? I really leave this question 
to you. It is you who should answer whether you 'feel' responsible or 
not. By no means does my text imply that you or anyone else is 
responsible. The text says that those who are offended are "those who 
identify themselves with Jesus's killers. Those who would commit this 
murderous act today."  Accordingly, it is you who should ask yourself 
whether you would commit such a crime today.
Once again, you may want to refine your question. The question you 
want to ask is whether I BELIEVE that you are responsible.

No is the answer. I don't BELIEVE that you are responsible; moreover 
I KNOW that you are not responsible. Nevertheless, my text implies as 
well that you MAY not be as innocent as you wish to be.

In my text I stress that "I assume that those Jews who get angry when 
blamed for killing Jesus are those who identify themselves with 
Jesus's killers. Those who would commit this murderous act today."

Seemingly, you are 'angry', you feel accused of something without 
even being accused of anything. On the face of it, the question you 
have to ask yourself is whether you identify yourself with Christ's 
killers? I am pretty sure that you don't and you shouldn't be. 
However, I must tell you that the cyber kangaroo courts that you and 
your friends hold on a daily basis reminds me too much of the 
Sanhedrin. I suggest that you think about that as well for a while.

Somehow you and those like you know what is good for the 
Palestinians, the Jews, the working class. I occasionally ask myself 
what it is that makes you so confident. You and your followers indeed 
have managed to silence some of the most interesting intellects 
around just because you do not approve their politics or religion. I 
am afraid to inform you Lenni, that these days are over. Your six UK 
disciples are working day and night for more than three years doing 
their very best to silence me, I am afraid to tell you that they 
fail. In fact they achieve the opposite instead.

I do not feel sorry for them because they have really zero reputation 
to defend. But I really feel sorry for you Lenni. You are an 
important contributor to the Israeli-Palestinian discourse. Your 
books are more than valuable. You have a reputation to defend. I 
would like to see you in the midst of the discourse rather than 
surrounded by the last shadows of echoes of tribal socialism.

Just before closing this email I will sharpen the differences between us.

Unlike you Lenni, I believe in freedom of speech. Unlike you Lenni, I 
am against gatekeeping, I am also against any form of dogmatic or 
monolithic discourses of hegemony. Unlike you and your friends, I 
believe that every human subject is entitled to human rights. Unlike 
you Lenni, I approve of the Hamas. Unlike you Lenni, I understand 
that working class politics has very little relevance in Arabia.

Yet, I have never tried to silence anyone, on the contrary. I will 
fight for your right to speak your mind.

Lenni: Thanks, in advance, for your time and trouble in this regard,

Gilad: It was my entire pleasure.

All the best
Gilad

atzmon at mac.com
BrennerL21 at aol.com