Crazy like a Fox: Business Leader Maurice R. Greenberg Describes Ahmadinejad's Performance

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http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=12190

Crazy like a Fox: Business Leader Maurice R. Greenberg Describes 
Ahmadinejad's Performance

September 21, 2006

On September 20, the Council on Foreign Relations hosted a small 
meeting of select council members with Iranian President Mahmoud 
Ahmadinejad. Several members of the Nixon Center's Board of Directors 
took part including center chairman Maurice R. Greenberg. In his 
interview with National Interest online editor Ximena Ortiz, the 
influential business leader-now chairman and CEO of C. V. Starr & Co. 
and honorary vice chair of the Council on Foreign Relations-describes 
the session.

Q: Please give us your perspective of President Ahmadinejad's 
much-publicized performance yesterday at the Council on Foreign 
Relation, where only members were invited and no televisions cameras 
were present. Could we start with your personal exchange with the 
president of Iran?

MRG: He has been quoted many times, including last evening, that the 
Holocaust needs to be explored as to whether or not it really 
occurred. And he says, "Well you know, every time somebody tries to 
do that, they get imprisoned." Well, the reason some have been 
imprisoned is because it's against the law in some places to deny 
that the Holocaust occurred.

Of course it occurred. And when he said that, I responded: "Listen, I 
went through Dachau during the war. To suggest it didn't occur is 
simply a lie." So he turned around and asked me how old I was, to 
determine if I was old enough to have been there. And then he changed 
the subject.

Q: So that was the extent of it?

MRG: Yes, but then there was a lot of follow up on that. He wanted to 
know why there was an objection to have professors and historians 
explore whether or not it had occurred.  The fact of the matter, 
obviously we said, is that it's a recognized fact that it occurred; 
it was 6 million Jews that perished in the Holocaust and that any 
single individual that denies that is not only wrong but is also 
trying to be revisionist of history.

Q: Was it your sense that he truly doubts whether the Holocaust 
occurred or was he grandstanding? He was presumably playing just to 
that audience because there were no television cameras there.

MRG: No, no, but there were reporters there. Look, he has said this 
on many occasions, not just last evening. And it's offensive. I would 
say that this man, he's not only out of touch, he's very clever and I 
worry about what he's capable of doing. And I do believe that the 
administration's, and the president's in particular, view of Iran and 
the danger that it presents to the world, particularly our country 
and Israel, is not only real, it reflects a real and present danger. 
I do not think that we can take lightly what he stands for and is 
capable of, if he came into possession of nuclear weapons.

Q: Give us more insight on the man himself. Clearly you feel that 
he's dangerous, and that the administration's characterization of him 
is correct. Can you elaborate? You've dealt with many foreign 
leaders, given your position in the business community. Is there 
anything in particular that strikes you about Ahmadinejad?

MRG: Yes: How a man like this came to power. He's very clever. He 
responds in an oblique way: never directly to the question. He 
changes the subject. He goes on and on and raises issues. For 
example, regarding those in prison in Iran, including members of the 
press-he doesn't answer the question. He says, "There are 3 million 
people in prison in the United States. What are they in prison for?" 
He just throws back something that he believes is improper in our 
country. Not on any factual basis, it's just his method of never 
answering the question.

The manŠ I wouldn't call him nuts. He's not crazy. He's crazy like a fox.

Q: So bottom line: In your view, can we do business with him or is it 
impossible to do so?

MRG: I think it's almost impossible to do business with him as long 
as he has those views. He says: "Why should the Palestinians suffer 
even if there was a Holocaust? What does one have to do with the 
other?" I mean, they have nothing to do with each other. We don't 
link them together. And we discussed that. They're not linked.

He thinks the Palestinians should be permitted to return, that's 
never going to happen. If the Palestinians returned to Israel, they'd 
swamp the country and there wouldn't be an Israel. But he doesn't 
want an Israel.

Q: It sounds like he didn't make any effort to try to reach outŠ

MRG: No, no. There was no effort to reach out. He's offensive. He's 
smug. He's a danger.

Q: Did the council make the right decision in inviting him?

MRG: I think we made the right decision to meet with him because now 
we have confirmed what he is. By not seeing him, what do you 
accomplish? Seeing him confirmed what he is. And he knew what we 
stand for. For him to say that we were simply mouthing the 
administration's positions-obviously he found that that was not so, 
because we had Republicans, we had Democrats, and independents in the 
room.

Q: You say you share the administration's characterization of the 
Iranian president. But do you feel that this administration is 
properly equipped to deal with the Ahmadinejad challenge?

MRG: What do you mean by that?

Q: Is it your view that they have the skills necessary in terms of 
diplomacy, and foreign policy acumen and savoir faire to counter the 
Iranian challenge? Are they smart enough to deal with this "crazy 
like a fox" character?

MRG: Yes, I think so. I don't think that's the issue. It doesn't take 
anybody long (in or out of the administration) to recognize what this 
man is and how you deal with him. [Iran is] not uninvolved with the 
whole Middle East, obviously, it's not uninvolved with Iraq, it's not 
uninvolved with the recent war between Israel and Hizballah. 
Unfortunately, that resulted in strengthening Iran's position in the 
Middle East because of their support (both financially and with 
weapons) of Hizballah. And the Israelis did not have an 
over-resounding victory. So temporarily this man is riding high.  And 
as I said he's crazy like a fox. And do I think we know how to deal 
with him?

We can't deal with him. You can't deal with this guy. I do not 
believe that we should let him come into possession of the 
capabilities to manufacture a nuclear device, or achieve it by an 
indirect means, such as buying it from somebody else.

Q: In light of your opinions, is it your view that we have to change 
tack? Because there are attempts to do business with this man.

MRG: Look, I think you have to negotiate as much as you can. Because 
a peaceful solution is the best of both worlds. And I would never 
give up trying to achieve that, because we'd be criticized. We have 
to think about our role in the world as well, and not just about what 
we think unilaterally about this individual. So I would not 
discontinue trying to find a solution to it, via the UN or a 
coalition of countries that feel as we do that we cannot permit Iran 
to come into possession of a nuclear device. If they want nuclear 
power, it's got to be done in a way that doesn't permit them to be 
enriching material for a nuclear device. We have to keep that from 
occurring.

Q: And it sounds that your sense of that was crystallized after your meetingŠ

MRG: My sense was crystallized last evening.

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