Safe Conduct? Readers don't give the Bundesrepublic a glowing
report card on this one!
zgrams at zgrams.zundelsite.org
zgrams at zgrams.zundelsite.org
Fri Apr 21 11:14:35 EDT 2006
Good Morning from the Zundelsite:
Who was it that said, "They have tried me in my absence, they have
convicted me in my absence, they might as well shoot me in my
absence!"?
Don't laugh. This "safe conduct" offered to me is a serious matter
- and it is perceived as such by most of my correspondents. A very
small handful of my readers thought I might risk it, but the overall
response and verdict was:
DON'T GO TO GERMANY! YOU CANNOT TRUST THESE PEOPLE!
Below are some excerpts of reader comments I received - I should add
that about a third of them are attorneys or otherwise knowledgeable
about the law:
=====
It is appropriate and indeed necessary for the court to seek your
views and somehow hear your statements. However, US, Canadian and
German authorities have been almost criminally inattentive to
individual liberties in their treatment of your husband. Therefore,
it does not follow that this court, protestations of safe conduct
given, would live up to that offering. Rather, the risk is that
something you might say in testifying could be used as a pretext for
detaining you. I believe the perpetrators of this whole legal
travesty would be pressing the court for that result, because they
could add another revisionist scalp to their string.
If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't trust them.
=====
If Ernst can be prosecuted for things he has said and written, how
can the state turn around and invite someone onto its sacred soil -
someone who has said and written those same things? If Ernst's
message deserves to be treated like an infectious disease, how can
the state invite another carrier? Germany has stepped in it so
deeply that all its options exist in the absurd.
=====
What a dilemma they are putting you in. On the one hand, you want to
help your husband. On the other, anything you say will be twisted to
fit the template they want to create, so that you may end up hurting
your husband. And they may use your testomony against you yourself
in the future. (Š) Proceed with extreme caution. I am not a lawyer,
but I think I would pass on this one."
=====
You can't believe their "guarantee of safe passage" if they can't
explain how they got jurisdiction over your husband in the first
place. Only a fool would voluntarily subject themselves to the
jurisdiction of a Court that had imprisoned their husband without due
process of law no matter what that Court guaranteed or promised. (Š)
Personally I have no plans to ever go anywhere in the German speaking
world.
=====
I would refuse to answer such a ridiculous letter. It is a bona fide
trap. Germany has no jurisdcition over you in any regard. If you
'volunteer' for anything requested by German authorities, it could be
construed that you have granted jurisdiction.
=====
I do not know about 'consulate' -- the word used in the letter --
but I trust you are aware that embassies are considered sovereign
territory of the foreign country. (Š) Therefore, you should be
chary of stepping into a German (or Austrian or French) high
commission -- you could get served with papers that could not
properly be served on U. S. territory.
=====
Beware of the spider.
=====
They kidnapped Ernst. Legal and promises mean nothing to them. Judge
them by what they do not what they say. They will simply say, "oh yes
you were guaranteed those protections as a witness, but now you are
being charged as a criminal. Sorry, you are in our jurisdiction and
we are holding you over for trial.".
You can imagine what your protests to US Consulate will bring. Zippo.
=====
When you testified in Canada, you made clear that you started the
Zundelsite and Ernst has nothing to do with it, then or now. What
then do the German authorities want to elicit from you?
It is probable that no matter what you say in any forum, in Germany
or in America, the German authorities will claim you perjured
yourself and an effort will be made to extradite you to Germany for
trial. The rationale would be if you testified truthfully, they
would not seek to extradite you.
Since they have concluded that you perjured yourself, no matter what
you have said, since you voluntarily gave your testimony, you
consented to be tried in a German Court on the charge of perjury.
Far-fetched? Perhaps. German authorities think nothing of holding
Ernst Zundel, a pacifist, on a trumped-up charge of incitement to
hatred and violence against segments of the population when all he
has done is tell the truth.
It should be fairly obvious that the goal of the German authorities
is to shut down your Zundelsite and to do that they need you out of
America and in their custody.
Don't accommodate them in the least.
=====
As I said before, they want YOU, even more than they want Ernst.
They want to shut down the Zundelsite. They want to have the
appearance of legality, that is why they didn't arrest you when they
arrested Ernst. He is a German citizen and you are not. But now,
they are trying ANY WAY THEY CAN to get you under their jurisdiction
so they can arrest you too.
You have NOTHING to gain by testifying, and you have EVERYTHING to
lose. You may think that this will get publicity for Ernst's case
but you KNOW they control the press and won't give it any more
publicity than occurred when Ernst was arrested. The major publicity
about Ernst's case comes from YOU and YOUR WEBSITE. If you get
arrested, then THAT will be gone too.
They already KNOW that the website is yours. You know they have ALL
the information from ALL of Ernst's trials and tribunals. They just
want to get you in their clutches. Don't let them!
=====
I am an attorney in Maryland, and I would NEVER allow you to appear,
or testify, unless you were to testify at his sentencing, by video in
the USA, as a character witness and to show him as a good family man.
I would not allow you to speak on ANY OTHER ISSUE. Mitigation,
only!! Do not open the door, or you may be the next victim of
inquisition. The longer that they drag out Ernst's trial, the longer
he will be stuck over there.....looks to me like the Germans are
getting tired of the Lobby's control of their nation, over this
particular trial. (Š) Since the several historians' arrest, I have
realized how insidious the Lobby's control over international power
elite, truly is. They need the holocaust, to justify the existence of
"Israel" which is totally unjustifiable, at this point.
=====
1- The entire letter is convoluted. You have no reason to take
yourself to Germany. They are lying - because they have no honor
left in them. They will go back on their word.
2 - The letter is put in such a way that says, almost as if they
will force you to testify. Watch out that they will not give you a
SUBPOENA to testify against your own husband.
3 - AND MOST IMPORTANT:
This has been done before and with modern technology is is possible.
IF THEY WANT YOUR TESTIMONY SO BADLY - LET THE COURT COME TO YOU.
=====
Please don't go unless you wish to be a martyr and join Ernst in
prison, where you may never get out. It's another trap to remove
another "holocaust denier" and especially an Ernst Zuendel supporter
from society. As his wife and diligent supporter, the court will see
you exactly as they see him. Just reexamine how they suckered /
trapped Germar Rudolf and David Irving. You have zero protection.
It's a kangaroo court over there and anyone who supports Ernst will
be sent to prison. The puppet-like government in Germany is heavily
influenced/dominated/run by the Zionist and Zionist-sympathizer
puppeteers. You will be another victim. Your voice will be stilled
until you're out of prison, if you're lucky. You can accomplish far
more by continuing being a voice for Ernst over here while you are,
for the time being, reasonably safe. Continue Ernst patriotic
efforts here!
=====
Ingrid, they are setting you up. DO NOT GO. MAKE A PUBLIC STATEMENT
THAT YOU WOULD GO IN A MINUTE IT YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD HELP YOUR
HUSBAND, BUT YOU KNOW FULL WELL THAT IT WOULD NOT AND MIGHT EVEN MAKE
IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR YOU AND THAT THIS INVITATION IS JUST ONE TO
ENTRAP YOU.
PLEASE, DO NOT GO.
=====
The downside to not going is that they may attempt to convict your
husband based on the "evidence" that you refused to testify, fearing
criminal persecution yourself (they would call it "prosecution").
=====
I read the strange request of Dr. Meinerzhagen carefully.
I am of course not familiar with the German laws involved but I see
the last sentence of his letter as a clear threat that they are
demanding that you respond to the questions they asked or they will
seek "judicial assistance" from the US authorities to compel you to
appear - presumably in the United States. I am not familiar with this
procedure but I a ssume there is some such legal right for them to do
this. Do you have US counsel who can advise?
Since they go on to say that even if you were compelled to appear
you could refuse to testify as the wife of Ernst or under the German
version of the "Fifth Amendment" (the possibility of
self-incrimination or incrimination of Ernst), they go on to
virtually urge you to claim these as reasons for not wishing to
appear. They even go to the extreme of suggesting that should you
testify virtually any response to a question asked of you would
likely be incriminationg to Ernst or yourself under the charges also
being considered against you! Astounding!
I suspect that under the German Star Chamber laws involved here such
an action on your part of claiming your rights not to testify could
be used against Ernst as evidence of guilt, unlike the US legal
situation.
=====
Whatever you do, do NOT follow this invitation. Nor set foot into
any German Embassy, after all that is German territory.
=====
There is no "trial," it's a witchhunt, a kangaroo court. In the
first place, the German government has no credentials, it is, in fact
not the legal government of the German people at all! Second, this
so-called "law," the infraction of which forms the basis for the
"trial," is illegal since the Charter of the United Nations, to which
Germany is a signatory, specifically supports freedom of expression
and opinion. History is always a matter of opinion, and this
"incitement' charge is totally an illusion of the savage and
vindictive Jewish mind.
=====
They know you won't go to Germany coz they know that you know had you
also been in the same immigrant status as Ernst they would have had
`a pair of birds with the one stone`. (Š) Personally, i don't trust
anything coming out of what is clearly another zionist vassal stste.
=====
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - Don't go to Germany or get involved in any
way, keep stumm and the head below the firing line. I have a really
BAD feeling about this. 50% of their worst nichtmare is already
under lock and key - what a bonus if the other 50% walked in
voluntarily. There are no dirty tricks low enough that will not be
tried to achieve the 100% result. The whole thing stinks to high
heaven.
=====
Thank goodness for the Internet. I just read at the rense.com site
the letter you recieved from Germany. Goodness gracious. They must
think you are stupid. Their evil ways are scary also. Thank you for
all that you and your husband are doing.
=====
Don't do it! Real Germans are honorable people and they would keep
their promise of safe conduct. But you are not dealing with real
Germans, you are dealing with sneaky "Khazars" and they will find a
way to detain you in Germany.
====
Please do not go to Germany. You cannot trust those people.
=====
So, why do they want your evidence ? As you are not going to
Germany, nothing you say by way of evidence is going to harm you.
Clearly it is intended to be to the disadvantage of Ernst. (Š) If
this sounds illogical, Ingrid, so does the logic of `defaming the
memory of the dead`.
=====
For God's sake, don't go!!
=====
No to a trip to Germany. The judge tells you that you are already
under investigation and that you jointly operate the Zundelsite. The
fact that Ernst is not in a position to aid you in publishing the
current Zundelsite is irelevant to the judge. (Š) There are probably
another million Americans who have violated and continue to violate
their stupid law. I will fly out to accompany you to that meeting
and state that the Holocaust is a filthy racket if it will help.
=====
I do not trust ANY U. S. Government official. They, along with
Canada, broke all of their own rules to get Mr. Zundel to the
kangaroo court in Germany, and any "safety guarantee" they offer,
written or otherwise, will be conveniently ignored at their pleasure.
=====
The track reacord for honesty and fairplay is atrocious, by the
people you will be dealing with. (Š) These people are becoming
desperate and will do anything to gain their goals......YOU would be
quite a trophy to put on display.
Another point: "They" know damned well that you own the "Zundelsite"
website!! They use the lie that it belongs to Ernst to draw you out
(Š) DO NOT put yourself on their turf where you can be put at your
enemy's mercy when you can remain on your own turf.
=====
My God, Irimland, you can't trust those people and you cannot trust
the American Gov. They never said you would have safe conduct to
coming back to the States. I pray that you will not leave American
shores.
=====
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ATTEND AT ANY GERMAN CONSULATE OR SIMILAR
FACILITY. They are consider German soil, and you would be arrested as
soon as you entered! The letter from Mannheim basically states this!!
=====
I read this "invitation" to have a two-fold purpose. One, to
request your voluntary testimony as it relates to your husband's case
and two, to place you on notice that you too are under investigation,
as a separate case.
While your testimony may not be used against your husband and
perhaps also not against you, what prevents the German authorities
from arresting you and securing an indictment, based on information
they had obtained (against you) from other sources? Is it not a
fact, that you have stated in the past that "zundelsite.org" does not
belong to your husband? Yet ownership of this site (and content) is
being attributed to your husband. Why can't the same claim be made
against you? (Š) Guilt or innocence is established by trial, but in
the meantime you and your husband are both incarcerated. You have
already seen how the German legal system works,what makes you think
you are entitled to any better treatment? (Š) Give them nothing
they don't already know.
=====
I received your Zgram yesterday evening. As always, I was so eager
to hear about the latest news regarding Mr. Z and yourself. Upon
reading that the German government wants you to appear in court, I
was numb with fear for your safety! (Š) Is it not clear that the
Zundelsite is yours? After all, while your husband has been in jail
for the past many tears, the Zundelsite and Zgrams continue.
Also, the German government has shown to the world that they are a
Stalinist Dictatorship when it comes to Jewish questions and that
they have actively sought the arrest and extradition of German
nationals simply for their views! You are American. It does not
matter! Look at Mr. Irving, a Brit, who is being held in Austria.
They will find a way to detain you. (Š) The "Court" has shown itself
to be a sinister body with no regard for Freedoms and Rights. It
would be like believing a lion when he tells his prey that he wants
to be friends and that he would not have any intention of eating it.
Furthermore, do you recall Mr. Grossman's comment to a reporter
regarding your husband being viewed as a martyr? He said :"You can't
be a martyr if nobody knows about you!" Was he instructing the media
not to report on the trial? If nobody knows about Mr. Z then why is
he so dangerous to Canada and to other countries? It is clear by his
comment that Mr. Z will be buried on their orders and you would be
the next target. After all, the Truth is still being published and
they cannot stop it......unless they imprison every last martyr
capable of and courageous enough to speak the Truth! Please do not
go to Germany!
=====
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you go to Germany. (Š) They've
already tried to sabotage the zundelsite; they'd like nothing better
than to capture you and imprison you, too (and our government would
do nothing to protect your rights).
=====
this advice from an old attorney and retired judge. Take it for
what it's worth. :-(
My legal opinion is an emphatic NO. She will not be given the
opportunity to express her views. SHE WILL ONLY BE PERMITTED TO GIVE
TESTIMONY THAT WILL CERTAINLY CONVICT HER HUSBAND.
Also, safe conduct in this case is not a promise that she will not
be charged and arrested for her own actions against the German Code.
The judge's letter is very plain. The only thing she has to gain is
perhaps seeing EZ. All else will hurt his case and probably her.
=====
Do NOT go there! Only the Mannheim prosecutor has promised safe
conduct. Not other arms of the German govt or regions of Germany in
which you might find yourself. Nor other Euro countries that might
be inclined to prosecute or to cooperate with a warrant issued by
Germany or Israel, for that matter.
=====
If Ernst is being prosecuted for the website, and you're the actual
operator... And you're an ethnic German... As I recall, Ernst was
keelhauled by local cops, in the sardonic words of Judge
Mainzerhagen, "through officials in the USA by means of judicial
assistance." He says that he can't force you to come to Germany, but
the Americans could.
To go into a German tribunal in which lawyers are dismissed or
prosecuted for defending their clients, and you not a natural-born
American, would literally be suicide. What help could you expect
from the US embassy? None. You would probably have your US passport
taken away. This much is pretty obvious. (Š)
Wasn't John Demjanjuk a naturalized citizen? (Š)
Anyway, the judge has put you on notice that you can be picked up
anytime. And always remember Operation Keelhaul and the value of
American promises.
=====
There is absolutely NO NEED NOR REASON for you to answer ANY
question to these swindlers and twisters of justice, NOR is there a
need to travel to Germany. This entire episode appears to me like a
REAL TRAP.
=====
Be aware that Germany has a law on the books for the arrest of
anyone who is under suspicion of having committed an offence against
Par 130 by use of the internet. This law was upheld by the German
Supreme Court in Karlsruhe a few years ago. The fact that you are a
US citizen will not give you immunity from prosecution once you set
foot on German soil. (Š)
As we can see there is a big round up taking place of leading
revisionists. Next in line will be the small fish. I will no longer
travel to Germany on business or for personal reasons. The epicenter
for this persecution is Mannheim.
=====
Please do not go. It is obvious that the court has no concept of fair
play or truth. Once there, they can accuse you of any new trumped up
charge, and hold you, then using you as a lever against Ernst and
vice versa.
=====
DO NOT CO-OPERATE IN ANY WAY!!!
=====
The maneuvering they do over there to back you into a corner is an
abomination.
Your status with so many of us is of utmost importance, and without
you, so much information would be lost to us. Obviously you are a
thorn in their side and they won't be happy till you are obliterated.
Sometimes I think of the treachery of the Nuremburg Trials where the
guilty verdict was understood from the beginning such that the trials
were a complete, asinine mockery of justice.
=====
Don't trust them!!! Don't Go!!!
=====
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