The Zundel Case discussed on Dissident Voices

[zgrams at zgrams.zundelsite.org]

Title:  The Zundel Case discussed in a broadcast on Dissident Voices



Kevin Alfred Strom, who broadcasts the highly popular Dissident 
Voices program every week, did an excellent two-hour update 
interview, titled Strike at the Root: Part I

TODAY WE have as our guest the historian, writer, speaker, and 
activist extraordinaire Mark Weber, Director of the Institute for 
Historical Review. Welcome to ADV, Mark.

MW: Thank you very much, Kevin. It's a pleasure to be here again.

KAS: There are quite a number of things I'd like to discuss with you, 
Mark - your recent speech in New York, your recent interviews with 
news services, your upcoming protests against the Jewish supremacists 
at the Simon Wiesenthal Center - but first, let's get your 
perspective on the recent developments in the case of Ernst Zündel, 
the German-American artist and writer who has been subjected to a 
decades-long persecution because of his views on German history, 
Jewish power, and the history of World War II. I understand that 
after two years of incarceration on phony pretexts, Mr. Zündel has 
finally been charged in Germany.
MW: That's right. He was held for two years in solitary confinement 
in Canada as a so-called "threat to national security." This was a 
pretext, as even the leading daily newspaper in Canada acknowledged. 
After being found to be a "threat to national security" he was 
deported to Germany on March 1st of this year, and he's been held 
ever since in what's called "investigative custody."
That's a common practice in Germany and on the continent in lieu of 
bail, which isn't quite as common in Europe as it is here. One good 
thing about this development is that the conditions under which he 
has been held in Germany's Mannheim prison are much better than the 
conditions under which he was held in Canada. We've talked previously 
on this show about some of the harsh, draconian circumstances of his 
Canadian imprisonment, but in Germany his conditions have been 
better. Just a few days ago - and this has been reported fairly 
widely - he was finally formally charged, and I spent part of today 
trying to find out the specific charges. I was told only that he has 
been charged under the notorious Paragraph 130 of the German criminal 
code, which makes it a crime to deny the Holocaust as a form of 
so-called "popular incitement." That's the term, Volksverhetzung, 
which is used in this section of the German criminal code.

KAS: Well, what does that mean - "popular incitement?" Does that mean 
to get people excited about the fact that perhaps some of the 
Holocaust stories are not true?
MW: It's considered "incitement" even to say truthful things about 
the Holocaust - or the Holocaust story - that go against the official 
version. I cannot emphasize strongly enough that this is a blatant, 
grotesque violation of the principle of free speech - a principle 
that the Western world, the United States, and even Germany claim to 
uphold. The Holocaust story is the only chapter of official history 
that it is considered a crime to deny.
Ernst Zündel is an outspoken international figure in this battle 
because of the tremendous legal fight in which he engaged in Canada 
during the 1980s in two very widely publicized trials. Actually, for 
the last several years, before he was arrested two and a half years 
ago in Tennessee, he was living pretty quietly in the United States 
and had given up his operations in Canada, but against his intentions 
he's once again been thrust into the international spotlight.

KAS: I understand there are 14 charges that have been laid against 
him. Is that correct?
MW: That's right. I've heard there are 14 counts, but I'm unsure of 
what the specifics are. In the preliminary indictment under which he 
was held before he was formally charged, the most ominous of these 
counts is that he "denied the Holocaust" on the Zundelsite, an 
Internet Web site that is actually run by his wife. The ominous and 
dangerous aspect of this indictment is that he's being charged for an 
expression of opinion that's legal in the country where it was 
expressed - that is, in the United States.
I urge those listening to this interview to consult the Zundelsite to 
see what's there. You can find it by checking out zundelsite.org or 
going to the IHR site, ihr.org, and going to the links page. The 
Zundelsite is an American Web site that's maintained by his wife, not 
by Ernst Zündel himself. The Canadian and German courts have 
contested this fact; they claim that he runs it, but I know for a 
fact that that's not true. In fact, one of the strongest indications 
that this claim is not true is that for two years Ernst Zündel has 
been unable to operate any kind of Web site.

KAS: If she's committing this "crime," they would charge her if they 
could. They can't charge her, though, because she's an American 
citizen, correct?
MW: No, it's not because she's an American citizen. That's yet 
another aspect of this case that's very worrisome. If she were to go 
to Germany, she could be charged. Holocaust denial is a crime in 
Germany whether the person is a German citizen or not. Hans Schmidt 
was incarcerated for a time in Germany on similar charges even though 
he's a naturalized U. S. citizen.

KAS: So, if I "deny the Holocaust" through some statement I make 
today, for example, here in the United States, I could be subject to 
prosecution under those same laws if I went to Germany?
MW: Well, it hasn't yet been applied that extensively, but even if 
you were a German national here in the United States making a 
statement that's legal under American law, the implication of what 
Germany is doing is that you could be "held accountable." This would 
create international chaos. Imagine, for example, if a Chinese 
citizen were to denounce the Communist Party of China on an American 
Web site and then the Chinese government were to ask that he be 
extradited to China to be punished for expressing those views.

KAS: I would imagine that Chinese nationals have done precisely that.
MW: I imagine that has happened, but so far the only person to have 
been treated in this particularly grotesque manner has been Ernst 
Zündel.

KAS: The Canadian Jewish Congress' spokesman Len Rudner said that he 
was "very pleased" that the German prosecutors have charged Ernst 
Zündel, and that they were calling for what they called a "successful 
prosecution" in order to "completely discredit Ernst Zündel."
MW: Right. This is a point that I've made over and over, and I think 
it's an obvious one. Ernst Zündel would never have been extradited 
and wouldn't be in the situation he's in now if it hadn't been for 
the machinations of Canadian, American, and world Jewish 
organizations that have been working vehemently for years to lock him 
up and shut him up forever. I was very conscious of this fact when I 
testified before a so-called "Human Rights Tribunal" in Toronto on 
behalf of Ernst Zündel. I was very struck by the fact that there I 
was, testifying along with Paul Fromm on behalf of Ernst Zündel in 
this matter, but on the other side there was a small army of lawyers 
representing all of the major Jewish organizations of Canada, who 
were there trying to punish Ernst Zündel and shut him up.
Amazingly, they were trying to punish him for statements that had 
appeared on the Zundelsite that are legal in Canada when made in 
printed form. This makes the case even more grotesque, but these 
organizations are not at all interested in any kind of fairness in 
this matter. It's obvious that their motive is an intense desire for 
revenge and hatred for a man like Ernst Zündel, who has had the 
courage to speak out against Jewish power over the years.

KAS: Ironically, it seems that they have given his work far more 
publicity than it would otherwise have had.
MW: That's true, but unfortunately, many people are so afraid. The 
fact that Ernst Zündel is in jail is a very intimidating thing. Most 
people rightly and understandably don't want to be put in jail and 
punished as Ernst Zündel has been, which really underscores once 
again what an extraordinary man he is.

KAS: Yes, very few of us would have the courage to go through what 
Ernst Zündel has gone through and remain defiant.
MW: He is both defiant and, in spite of everything, remarkably upbeat 
and philosophical about his situation; and this comes across to 
anyone who knows him well. It's also apparent in the letters that he 
wrote during the time that he was being held in Canada and in the 
letters that he's written since he's been in Germany. He sees himself 
as having been thrust onto the world stage almost by destiny, in 
spite of his efforts to live a quiet life in the United States with 
his wife Ingrid, who, as you've mentioned, is a naturalized American 
citizen.

KAS: Have you been in contact with Mrs. Zündel? How's she taking the news?
MW: Well, it's very hard for her. I was in touch with her today and 
I've been in touch with her pretty regularly. She's afraid she'll 
never have her husband back and that she may never see him again, 
because even if he's released from Germany, he's not permitted to 
come back to the United States now.
And she's in a situation in which she would face arrest herself if 
she were to go to Germany. She's been forced to be responsible for 
the tremendous legal campaign in addition to all of the other work 
she was doing before her husband was arrested. It's a tremendous 
burden and emotional struggle for anyone in a situation like this and 
it's really remarkable what a great job she's done carrying on over 
the last several years.

KAS: Did you find out when we can expect a trial? When will this 
nightmare be on its way to being over for the Zundels?
MW: She told me that she does not expect a trial before November at 
the earliest, so it'll be probably some time after that. I'm trying 
right now to get a copy from Ernst Zündel's attorney of the actual 
brief listing the formal charges against him. We want to do as much 
as we can to encourage publicity for this case in Germany itself and 
in the rest of Europe because Ernst Zündel is the most prominent 
political prisoner in the Western world today and his case should be 
given maximum publicity. It's really to the shame of groups like 
Amnesty International that they have kept their hands off of this 
case in spite of the outrageously unjust treatment Ernst has had to 
endure.
One ominous aspect of Ernst's current incarceration, Ingrid told me, 
is that he's now restricted to receiving and sending no more than two 
letters a day. In recent months Ernst has received as many as sixty 
letters a day, but his postal privileges are apparently being very 
sharply curtailed now, although, of course, he has been writing a lot 
from his prison cell in Germany.

KAS: What is done with the other fifty-eight letters that he can't see?
MW: I don't know, but it does indicate that letters sent to him now 
may either not reach him at all or not without a tremendous delay, or 
else they may just be sent back. All this is very sad, but that's the 
situation right now.

KAS: How can our listeners who may be interested in giving financial 
aid help support Ernst Z¨ndel's legal campaign?
MW: They can send donations to his wife, Ingrid Rimland, whose 
address is given on the Zündel Web site that I mentioned earlier. 
Those who may encounter trouble accessing the site can also go to the 
IHR Web site; the Zündel website is linked on the IHR links page.
[If you don't have Internet access, write to Ingrid Zundel, 3152 
Parkway #13, PMB109, Pigeon Forge, TN, 37863,
USA.] That's the best way to provide support.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: /pipermail/attachments/20050812/763f938e/attachment.htm