ZGram - 4/8/2004 - Countdown to D-Day # 8

[zgrams at zgrams.zundelsite.org]

ZGram - Where Truth is Destiny:  Now more than ever!

April 8, 2004

Good Morning from the Zundelsite:

To follow up on our efforts to free Ernst Zundel, we have begun some 
exploration also on putting together a high-profile fact-finding 
delegation to Canada to take a closer look at that country's star 
chamber methods and similar shenanigans at which our enemies excel. 
Additionally, while I am further refining my plans for my trip on 
Monday early to follow up on my long-anticipated meeting with my 
Congressman, I thought I would refresh your memory about some of the 
Zundel issues by sending you the transcript of a radio interview:

[START]

Jewish Supremacism Exposed: An Interview with Mark Weber, part 1 by Kevin
Alfred Strom

American Dissident Voices Broadcast of April 3, 2004

Welcome to American Dissident Voices, I'm Kevin Alfred Strom.

This week there have been some astounding developments in the Ernst Zündel
case and in other matters relating to Jewish power.
Here with us to discuss those developments is one of the foremost experts
on those subjects and the official media spokesman on the Zündel case, Mr.
Mark Weber, Director of the Institute for Historical Review. Welcome to
our microphones once again, Mark.

WEBER: Thanks again, Kevin, it's always a pleasure.

KAS: It was very good to see you along with one of the speakers, Paul
Fromm, and so many National Alliance members meeting and networking at the
American Renaissance conference last month.

WEBER: Yes, it was. There was a very good spirit, and it's always good
seeing you and seeing other National Alliance people there.
I think it was very valuable, not merely for what people heard, but, as
you say, for the networking that took place.

KAS: While we were there I gave you a copy of the late Revilo Oliver's
book The Jewish Strategy, which you said you hadn't had a chance to see up
until that time. Have you had a chance to read it yet?

WEBER: Yes, I did. I read it on the plane flying back to California from
the conference, and it's a great book. It's Revilo Oliver at just about
his best, I think. It's a very good one-volume, not-too-lengthy look at
the Jewish strategy through the ages from the perspective of a man who's
just about uniquely qualified to write on this subject. You know, the
recent discussion over the Mel Gibson film has brought up for a lot of
people the contrast or the hostility that's existed over time -- on
occasion, anyway -- between Christian and Jewish interests in history, but
one of the values of this book by Revilo Oliver is to show that this same
tension -- this same strife -- has existed in non-Christian societies as
well, and it's not unique to Christian societies. Very often in the
context of the Gibson film a number of Jewish commentators have said,
"Well, you see, the problem of anti-Semitism is really rooted in
Christianity and that's why the Gibson film is really dangerous." Well,
that's really inaccurate. That's just wrong, because the same tension and
the same problems -- the same difficulties that we've seen in Christian
history, in Christian Europe, and the United States to some degree -- have
also been present wherever Jews have existed in large numbers in
non-Christian societies. Right now, of course, this obviously exists in
the Arab Muslim world, but as Oliver points out, it also existed in the
Roman and Hellenic world before Christianity was really a factor.

KAS: It's an important book; I hope you'll be able to give it some
publicity.

WEBER: Well, I think we will.

KAS: Before we get into the latest developments in the case of Ernst
Zündel, the historical revisionist, pacifist, and prisoner of conscience
in Canada who's been jailed for over a year now because of his historical
and political views, I'd like you to tell me a little bit about how Ernst
himself is doing.

WEBER: Well, that's a good question. You know, it's just outrageous, this
treatment; he's been in solitary confinement.
Now, he is permitted to make collect calls from the jail, and he does
write letters and he receives letters, but there's a great deal about his
treatment that's just outrageous. Do you know that the light in his cell
is never turned off? He is never permitted to sleep in darkness. That
alone just seems like a chicanery, a stupid thing to weaken him. He's
deprived of many of the medicines, herbs, and vitamins that he has been
taking over the years and that's not good for him. He's complained about
this and his attorney's complained about it. He's not permitted the use of
a pen; he has to use a pencil. I don't know the pretext under which that
particular stupidity is imposed on him. He doesn't have a real desk to
use. It's humiliating and trying and psychologically harmful treatment
that he's been getting over this past year, and all in the case of a man
who is not even charged with a crime.

KAS: Are all of the detainees in this so-called detention center treated
in the same way?

WEBER: No. It's normally a detention center for people whose immigration
status for one reason or another is not clear, and the treatment of Zündel
is unique or special because he's a so-called "national security risk."
There are very, very few individuals over the last several years who have
been treated as a national security risk in this way, so his treatment is
one that's only applied to a very small number of people. The only
individuals who have been treated this way in the last few years have been
people with noted ties to terrorist groups or in cases where there's
really some substantive or at least stronger reason to for the person to
be held, and that's just not the case with Ernst Zündel.

KAS: This keeping him under glaring lights all the time sounds almost like
some kind of torture. It's the sort of thing you hear about in these films
about American soldiers captured by the communist Chinese in the Fifties.

WEBER: Right. It can't help but be psychologically wearing over a long
period of time -- for an entire year like that; that's certainly true.
Maybe there is some regulation that permits this thing, but I can't see
what possible justification could be cited for this kind of treatment. And
again, he's not even permitted a pen; he has to use these little, stubby
pencils; it's ridiculous.
He writes letters; he has a lot of time, of course, to write letters, and
they're all handwritten in pencil on these scraps of paper that he has.

KAS: I received one of his pencil-written letters along with a beautiful
drawing he made with those very same pencils. I've received a report off
your Institute for Historical Review newswire that three U.S. Congressmen
are now working on the Zündel case. What can you tell us about that?

WEBER: Well, I got that news from Ernst's wife, Ingrid, and of course,
she's had to shoulder a tremendous burden in this whole case since the
arrest of her husband. In addition to what she used to do, she now has to
supervise this whole legal campaign as well. But she doesn't want to give
any names -- understandably, because, of course, because congressmen are
subject to the pressures of reelection and this is a reelection year. But
she says that she has been yelling and screaming and cajoling --
figuratively, of course -- to get congressmen to look into this case. Now
this brings up an interesting point. First of all, they may not do
anything publicly, but Ingrid Rimland is a U.S.
citizen. Because she is a U.S. citizen she has certain rights, and her
rights were violated. The arrest of Zündel on the fifth of February of
last year was just unbelievable because it's almost unheard of for a
person who's going through the normal procedure -- as Ernst Zündel was --
to become a naturalized citizen or to have a legal status in this country,
who's married to an American citizen, simply to be picked up and dumped
over the border, as he was. Now, because she's a U.S. citizen, she's
calling on congressmen to help in this case because of that violation of
her rights, and because of the precedent that this dangerously sets for
other Americans as well. Now, again, we don't know how brave people will
ultimately be, but it brings up an important point, and that is that much
more can be done within the system than many people often realize. It's
not a black-and-white situation where every congressman is corrupt or weak
or compliant and unable to do anything. An example was when Congressman
Jim Traficant stuck his head out for John Demanjanjuk and his intervention
ultimately played a very important role in getting Demanjanjuk back to the
United States. There are a few congressmen who do speak out courageously
against the power of the establishment, for example on the Iraq war -- Ron
Paul of Texas comes to mind -- so there are some exceptions. But anyway, I
really can't say anything more in detail about what's happening, but it is
encouraging that for the first time in the past year, three congressmen
are -- hopefully -- looking into and working on this case.

KAS: Well that is very good news indeed. The IHR also publicized the fact
that another establishment newspaper in Canada has now come out, at least
to some extent, in favor of Zündel. Can you tell us about that?

WEBER: Yes, that's a really important development. The leading newspaper
of Canada, its most influential paper -- it's like the New York Times of
Canada -- is the Globe and Mail. It's published in Toronto and it's a
venerable paper. It's been around for a long time and it speaks with great
authority, and when it comments editorially its voice is listened to.
Well, it published an editorial in the edition of March 6th, and the
editorial came along with a long article about the Zündel case by their
legal affairs writer, Kirk Makin, who interviewed Zündel. The article,
just by laying out the facts of the case, was sympathetic. The article
wasn't intentionally sympathetic, but just the more people know about the
case, and the more the facts about the case are known, the more any
objective person, I think, will see the injustice that's being carried out
against him. Anyway, the editorial strongly affirmed, as some other
periodicals have in Canada as well, that he's being held unjustly on a
pretext. Now, they're not flattering to Zündel. They regard him as a nut
and an obnoxious fellow, but the point is -- and this is the important
thing -- the knowledge that the treatment of Zündel is a dangerous thing
for everybody in Canada; that there's no real valid justification for the
claim that he's a threat to the national security of Canada. It says he's
held on a bogus "guilt by association pretext." The editorial says he
poses no risk to people or property, and the paper pointed out what I and
Paul Fromm and Ingrid Rimland and others have pointed out: that Zündel has
never been charged with a violent crime and he doesn't urge any others to
commit violence. And the paper finally concluded the real danger to
Canadians does not come from individuals like Zündel, but "from a
government that casually discards their most precious rights," and that
carries a lot of weight. Now, of course, an editorial like this does not
itself free Zündel, but it makes it a lot easier for those people who do
hold power -- the judges and prosecutors and others in this case -- to act
with justice and common sense to release him or to do what's right,
because they can always refer back to a voice as authoritative as
Toronto's Globe and Mail.

KAS: Indeed. Is your interpretation of that editorial that they were
actually calling for freedom for Zündel?

WEBER: They're saying he's being held unjustly; they say that in the
editorial, and that's just obvious. Canada has no compelling reason to
hold this man, and he's being held -- ultimately -- because Canadian
Jewish groups are furious at Zündel and don't forgive him for the victory
he won in the long, drawn-out legal battle that he fought against these
Jewish groups back in the1980s that actually increased the rights of all
Canadians as a result. An archaic law that made it a crime to circulate
what was called "false news" was thrown off the books by the Canadian
Supreme Court and Zündel was vindicated. The Supreme Court ultimately
affirmed the arguments that he and his attorneys had been making for
years. I witnessed it personally: these Jewish groups in Canada just would
not rest. They were absolutely determined to get him, and the proof of
that was that even though he, through this legal action, made it possible
legally to publish booklets and other things in Canada questioning the
holocaust story, these same Jewish groups turned right around, and then
tried to get him punished for circulating these very same things on the
Internet. It's like double jeopardy, it's incredible. The main thing was
that Zündel had reprinted a booklet called Did Six Million Really Die? and
finally this became unquestionably legal in Canada as a result of his
legal action. But these same groups then came around and said, "No, he's
got to be punished because this same booklet appears on the web site
that's actually headquartered or centered in the United States of America.
It's unbelievable! And the sheer malice, the spirit of revenge that
animates these people was obvious in the hearings in Canada, at which I
was one of the witnesses who testified on behalf of Ernst Zündel.

KAS: If Zündel were freed in Canada, what would his status be? He would
still face the difficulty of getting back to his wife in the United
States, would he not?

WEBER: I was just going to say, it's a double-pronged difficulty.
He has to get out of jail in Canada and he has to be able to come back to
the United States. When he was deported in February of 2003, the U.S.
government kicked him out along with a declaration that he wasn't legally
permitted to come back to the United States for twenty years. Now, that's
why it's very important that Ingrid -- his wife -- and other people are
working on this case here on the United States level as well. It's unclear
what would happen if he were just suddenly released. I suppose he could go
to some third country, but what the Zionist Jewish groups in Canada are
demanding is that Canadian officials put him on an airplane and send him
off to Germany, where he would be promptly put in jail in that country on
the basis of these strange laws that exist there, these anti-free speech
laws that make it a crime to question one chapter of history, namely the
Jewish holocaust story. So, that's why it's really important that this
battle be fought not only on the north side of the U.S.-Canadian border,
but also on this side as well.

KAS: Now, the anti-neocon radicals at Counterpunch magazine, who would
certainly find little to agree with in Ernst Zündel's life's work, have
also issued a powerful call for his persecution to end, even stronger than
the one from the Globe and Mail, isn't that right?

WEBER: Right. There was a two-page piece, of course lengthier too than the
editorial, by an American writer named Alan Cabal. I think he's on the
east coast now, but he used to live in California, and he's been following
the case for some time. The piece is really put in terms of free speech,
which is, of course, the main point of the battle right now. Counterpunch
is much better known in its online version. It's widely read and has a lot
of influence. It's generally leftist in its outlook. This article appeared
in the print version of the magazine, the February 1st-15th issue, and
much of the article just simply lays out the whole Zündel case, but he
does it in a sympathetic way.
In fact, the article's headline sort of tells you: it's called The
Persecution of Ernst Zündel. But the article finally concluded -- and this
is what Cabal writes, "The persecution of Ernst Zündel has been and
continues to be both relentless and utterly ruthless. This most recent and
ongoing episode flies in the face of a thousand years of Anglo-Saxon law.
The man may hold provocative views, but he is a committed pacifist. He is
guilty only of expressing an unpopular viewpoint. For him to be held in
solitary confinement without having even been charged with a crime and
without bail for a year, while the court proceeds against him is an
affront to justice and public decency that goes far beyond anything that
Mr. Zündel has to say." And that's in fact the truth and it's very
gratifying to see in that kind of forum an article of such clarity and
eloquence appearing.

KAS: Well, I'm glad to see that -- people coming from a leftist
perspective also interested in civil liberties and seeing what's done to
Zündel as a very great threat to all of our freedoms.

WEBER: Over the weekend there were demonstrations on behalf of Zündel. The
point is that it was a broader coalition. It is a broadening one, and it's
being fortified, as I said, by the willingness of people who really have
no real interest particularly in Ernst Zündel's views about history or
Germany or anything else to support his case because the treatment is a
danger to others. But I was going to say, there's really a broader thing,
all around the world. There's a worldwide coalition against this monster,
this tremendous power that was behind the war in Iraq, behind imposing a
kind of U.S. and Zionist hegemony everywhere, and that has gotten support
-- as everyone knows -- broadly all over the world, and that's something
that is enormously gratifying. People may disagree about all sorts of
other issues -- on religion, or society, or culture, or race -- but
there's a common interest everywhere in opposing these threats to all of
our interests, and I think it's vitally important. We've seen this in the
worldwide opposition to the Iraq war: this coming together of people who
hold views of every possible range, who nonetheless are outraged at what's
going on in the world and are determined to fight this common enemy.

KAS: Has your level of hope, Mark, risen for Ernst Zündel now?

WEBER: Well, not only has my level of hope risen, but more pertinently,
Ernst's and that of his wife have also risen. These recent developments
are the most encouraging things that have happened in quite a long time.
It was very discouraging -- it still is -- that there wasn't much movement
for a long time, but these recent developments are encouraging. There's
another thing that's happened, too, that I should mention. Some documents
that were obtained recently show that the Canadian equivalent or
counterpart of the FBI and the CIA -- it's called CSIS, the Canadian
Security and Intelligence Service -- was colluding with American officials
to get Zündel, to find a reason to get him before his arrest more than a
year ago.

KAS: How did you find that out?

WEBER: Those documents I believe were obtained through the Freedom of
Information Act. I can't say that for certain, but they have been checked
out.

KAS: These are internal memoranda?

WEBER: Internal e-mail messages. On our website there's a notice which
provides a link to the Zündel site, which actually has the texts of these
documents. Those are important. Again, they don't in and of themselves
free Zündel, but they do make it more embarrassing for the Canadian
authorities and the American authorities to hold him, because they show
the political agenda behind the campaign to get Zündel. That's important,
because the more people know about this, the more people know about
history and about current affairs -- not only in this case, but around the
world with the Iraq war, with the Israel-Palestine conflict and so forth
-- the better. That's why this worldwide campaign for enlightenment --
which, of course, you play an important role in -- is of the utmost
importance.

KAS: We'll continue our interview with Mark Weber, Director of the
Institute for Historical Review next week, when we'll explore Ernst
Zündel's contributions to Western civilization and human freedom and the
potential positive consequences of Jewish arrogance and miscalculation in
this changing world.

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The text above is based on a broadcast of the American Dissident Voices
radio program sponsored by National Vanguard Books.
It is distributed by e-mail each Saturday to subscribers of ADV-list.
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