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Aug 15, 2005
Kevin Alfred Strom, who broadcasts the
highly popular Dissident Voices program every week, did an excellent
two-hour update interview, titled Strike at the Root: Part I
American Dissident Voices broadcast for
the week of July 24 - July 30, 2005
listen to the broadcast (mp3)
download the broadcast (mp3)
real audio download
TODAY WE have as our guest the historian,
writer, speaker, and activist extraordinaire Mark Weber, Director of the
Institute for Historical Review. Welcome to ADV, Mark.
MW:
Thank you very much, Kevin. It’s a pleasure to be here again
KAS:
There are quite a number of things I'd like to discuss with you, Mark — your
recent speech in New York, your recent interviews with news services, your
upcoming protests against the Jewish supremacists at the Simon Wiesenthal
Center — but first, let’s get your perspective on the recent developments in
the case of Ernst Zündel, the German-American artist and writer who has been
subjected to a decades-long persecution because of his views on German
history, Jewish power, and the history of World War II. I understand that
after two years of incarceration on phony pretexts, Mr. Zündel has finally
been charged in Germany.
MW:
That’s right. He was held for two years in solitary confinement in Canada as
a so-called “threat to national security.” This was a pretext, as even the
leading daily newspaper in Canada acknowledged. After being found to be a
“threat to national security” he was deported to Germany on March 1st of
this year, and he’s been held ever since in what’s called “investigative
custody.”
That’s a common practice in Germany and on
the continent in lieu of bail, which isn’t quite as common in Europe
as it is here. One good thing about this development is that the conditions
under which he has been held in Germany’s Mannheim prison are much better
than the conditions under which he was held in Canada. We’ve talked
previously on this show about some of the harsh, draconian circumstances of
his Canadian imprisonment, but in Germany his conditions have been better.
Just a few days ago — and this has been reported fairly widely — he was
finally formally charged, and I spent part of today trying to find out the
specific charges. I was told only that he has been charged under the
notorious Paragraph 130 of the German criminal code, which makes it a crime
to deny the Holocaust as a form of so-called “popular incitement.” That’s
the term, Volksverhetzung, which is used in this section of the
German criminal code.
KAS:
Well, what does that mean — “popular incitement?” Does that mean to get
people excited about the fact that perhaps some of the Holocaust stories are
not true?
MW:
It’s considered “incitement” even to say truthful things about the
Holocaust — or the Holocaust story — that go against the official version. I
cannot emphasize strongly enough that this is a blatant, grotesque violation
of the principle of free speech — a principle that the Western world, the
United States, and even Germany claim to uphold. The Holocaust story is the
only chapter of official history that it is considered a crime to deny.
Ernst Zündel is an outspoken international
figure in this battle because of the tremendous legal fight in which he
engaged in Canada during the 1980s in two very widely publicized trials.
Actually, for the last several years, before he was arrested two and a half
years ago in Tennessee, he was living pretty quietly in the United States
and had given up his operations in Canada, but against his intentions he’s
once again been thrust into the international spotlight.
KAS:
I understand there are 14 charges that have been laid against him. Is that
correct?
MW:
That’s right. I’ve heard there are 14 counts, but I’m unsure of what the
specifics are. In the preliminary indictment under which he was held before
he was formally charged, the most ominous of these counts is that he “denied
the Holocaust” on the Zundelsite, an Internet Web site that is actually run
by his wife. The ominous and dangerous aspect of this indictment is that
he’s being charged for an expression of opinion that’s legal in the country
where it was expressed — that is, in the United States.
I urge those listening to this interview to
consult the Zundelsite to see what’s there. You can find it by checking out
zundelsite.org or going to the IHR site, ihr.org, and going to
the links page. The Zundelsite is an American Web site that’s maintained by
his wife, not by Ernst Zündel himself. The Canadian and German courts
have contested this fact; they claim that he runs it, but I know for a fact
that that’s not true. In fact, one of the strongest indications that this
claim is not true is that for two years Ernst Zündel has been unable to
operate any kind of Web site.
KAS:
If she’s committing this “crime,” they would charge her if they could. They
can’t charge her, though, because she’s an American citizen, correct?
MW:
No, it’s not because she’s an American citizen. That’s yet another aspect of
this case that’s very worrisome. If she were to go to Germany, she could be
charged. Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany whether the person is a
German citizen or not. Hans Schmidt was incarcerated for a time in Germany
on similar charges even though he’s a naturalized U. S. citizen.
KAS:
So, if I “deny the Holocaust” through some statement I make today, for
example, here in the United States, I could be subject to prosecution under
those same laws if I went to Germany?
MW:
Well, it hasn’t yet been applied that extensively, but even if you were a
German national here in the United States making a statement that’s legal
under American law, the implication of what Germany is doing is that you
could be “held accountable.” This would create international chaos. Imagine,
for example, if a Chinese citizen were to denounce the Communist Party of
China on an American Web site and then the Chinese government were to ask
that he be extradited to China to be punished for expressing those views.
KAS:
I would imagine that Chinese nationals have done precisely that.
MW:
I imagine that has happened, but so far the only person to have been treated
in this particularly grotesque manner has been Ernst Zündel.
KAS:
The Canadian Jewish Congress’ spokesman Len Rudner said that he was
“very pleased” that the German prosecutors have charged Ernst Zündel, and
that they were calling for what they called a “successful prosecution” in
order to “completely discredit Ernst Zündel.”
MW:
Right. This is a point that I’ve made over and over, and I think it’s an
obvious one. Ernst Zündel would never have been extradited and wouldn’t be
in the situation he’s in now if it hadn’t been for the machinations of
Canadian, American, and world Jewish organizations that have been working
vehemently for years to lock him up and shut him up forever. I was very
conscious of this fact when I testified before a so-called “Human Rights
Tribunal” in Toronto on behalf of Ernst Zündel. I was very struck by the
fact that there I was, testifying along with Paul Fromm on behalf of Ernst
Zündel in this matter, but on the other side there was a small army of
lawyers representing all of the major Jewish organizations of Canada, who
were there trying to punish Ernst Zündel and shut him up.
Amazingly, they were trying to punish him
for statements that had appeared on the Zundelsite that are legal in Canada
when made in printed form. This makes the case even more grotesque, but
these organizations are not at all interested in any kind of fairness in
this matter. It’s obvious that their motive is an intense desire for revenge
and hatred for a man like Ernst Zündel, who has had the courage to speak out
against Jewish power over the years.
KAS:
Ironically, it seems that they have given his work far more publicity than
it would otherwise have had.
MW:
That’s true, but unfortunately, many people are so afraid. The fact that
Ernst Zündel is in jail is a very intimidating thing. Most people rightly
and understandably don’t want to be put in jail and punished as Ernst Zündel
has been, which really underscores once again what an extraordinary man he
is.
KAS:
Yes, very few of us would have the courage to go through what Ernst Zündel
has gone through and remain defiant.
MW:
He is both defiant and, in spite of everything, remarkably upbeat and
philosophical about his situation; and this comes across to anyone who knows
him well. It’s also apparent in the letters that he wrote during the time
that he was being held in Canada and in the letters that he’s written since
he’s been in Germany. He sees himself as having been thrust onto the world
stage almost by destiny, in spite of his efforts to live a quiet life in the
United States with his wife Ingrid, who, as you’ve mentioned, is a
naturalized American citizen.
KAS:
Have you been in contact with Mrs. Zündel? How’s she taking the news?
MW:
Well, it’s very hard for her. I was in touch with her today and I’ve been in
touch with her pretty regularly. She’s afraid she’ll never have her husband
back and that she may never see him again, because even if he’s released
from Germany, he’s not permitted to come back to the United States now.
And she’s in a situation in which she would
face arrest herself if she were to go to Germany. She’s been forced to be
responsible for the tremendous legal campaign in addition to all of the
other work she was doing before her husband was arrested. It’s a tremendous
burden and emotional struggle for anyone in a situation like this and it’s
really remarkable what a great job she’s done carrying on over the last
several years.
KAS:
Did you find out when we can expect a trial? When will this nightmare be on
its way to being over for the Zundels?
MW:
She told me that she does not expect a trial before November at the
earliest, so it’ll be probably some time after that. I’m trying right now to
get a copy from Ernst Zündel’s attorney of the actual brief listing the
formal charges against him. We want to do as much as we can to encourage
publicity for this case in Germany itself and in the rest of Europe because
Ernst Zündel is the most prominent political prisoner in the Western
world today and his case should be given maximum publicity. It’s really
to the shame of groups like Amnesty International that they have kept
their hands off of this case in spite of the outrageously unjust treatment
Ernst has had to endure.
One ominous aspect of Ernst’s current
incarceration, Ingrid told me, is that he’s now restricted to receiving and
sending no more than two letters a day. In recent months Ernst has received
as many as sixty letters a day, but his postal privileges are apparently
being very sharply curtailed now, although, of course, he has been writing a
lot from his prison cell in Germany.
KAS:
What is done with the other fifty-eight letters that he can’t see?
MW:
I don’t know, but it does indicate that letters sent to him now may either
not reach him at all or not without a tremendous delay, or else they may
just be sent back. All this is very sad, but that’s the situation right now.
KAS:
How can our listeners who may be interested in giving financial aid help
support Ernst Z¨ndel’s legal campaign?
MW:
They can send donations to his wife, Ingrid Rimland, whose address is given
on the Zündel Web site that I mentioned earlier. Those who may encounter
trouble accessing the site can also go to the IHR Web site; the Zündel
website is linked on the IHR links page.
USA.] That’s the best way to provide
support.
American Dissident Voices
broadcast for the week of July 24 - July 30, 2005
listen to the broadcast (mp3)
download the broadcast (mp3)
real audio download
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Setting the Record Straight: Letters from Cell # 7
$10 - 180 Pages
Find out who this "premier thought criminal" really is -
how he thinks, how he writes, what he's really saying! You will
be astonished to learn why this man is so feared by the world's
manipulators of your thoughts!
Order form: HTML
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Reminder:
Help free Ernst Zundel, Prisoner of Conscience. His
prison sketches - now on-line and highly popular - help pay for his defence.
Take a look - and tell a friend.
http://www.zundelsite.org/gallery/donations/index.html
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Please write to Ernst Zündel, let him know that he is not
alone:
Ernst Zundel
JVA Mannheim
Justiz-Vollzugsanstalt
Herzogenried Strasse 111
D 68169 Mannheim
Germany
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