To follow up on our efforts to free Ernst Zundel, we have
begun some exploration also on putting together a high-profile fact-finding
delegation to Canada to take a closer look at that country's star chamber
methods and similar shenanigans at which our enemies excel. Additionally,
while I am further refining my plans for my trip on Monday early to follow
up on my long-anticipated meeting with my Congressman, I thought I would
refresh your memory about some of the Zundel issues by sending you the
transcript of a radio interview:
Jewish Supremacism Exposed: An Interview with Mark
Weber, part 1 by Kevin Alfred Strom
American Dissident Voices Broadcast of April 3, 2004
Welcome to American Dissident Voices, I'm Kevin Alfred
Strom.
This week there have been some astounding developments in
the Ernst Zündel case and in other matters relating to Jewish power. Here
with us to discuss those developments is one of the foremost experts on
those subjects and the official media spokesman on the Zündel case, Mr.
Mark Weber, Director of the Institute for Historical Review. Welcome to
our microphones once again, Mark.
WEBER: Thanks again, Kevin, it's always a pleasure.
KAS: It was very good to see you along with one of the
speakers, Paul Fromm, and so many National Alliance members meeting and
networking at the American Renaissance conference last month.
WEBER: Yes, it was. There was a very good spirit, and it's
always good seeing you and seeing other National Alliance people there. I
think it was very valuable, not merely for what people heard, but, as you
say, for the networking that took place.
KAS: While we were there I gave you a copy of the late
Revilo Oliver's book The Jewish Strategy, which you said you hadn't had a
chance to see up until that time. Have you had a chance to read it yet?
WEBER: Yes, I did. I read it on the plane flying back to
California from the conference, and it's a great book. It's Revilo Oliver
at just about his best, I think. It's a very good one-volume,
not-too-lengthy look at the Jewish strategy through the ages from the
perspective of a man who's just about uniquely qualified to write on this
subject. You know, the recent discussion over the Mel Gibson film has
brought up for a lot of people the contrast or the hostility that's
existed over time -- on occasion, anyway -- between Christian and Jewish
interests in history, but one of the values of this book by Revilo Oliver
is to show that this same tension -- this same strife -- has existed in
non-Christian societies as well, and it's not unique to Christian
societies. Very often in the context of the Gibson film a number of Jewish
commentators have said, "Well, you see, the problem of anti-Semitism
is really rooted in Christianity and that's why the Gibson film is really
dangerous." Well, that's really inaccurate. That's just wrong,
because the same tension and the same problems -- the same difficulties
that we've seen in Christian history, in Christian Europe, and the United
States to some degree -- have also been present wherever Jews have existed
in large numbers in non-Christian societies. Right now, of course, this
obviously exists in the Arab Muslim world, but as Oliver points out, it
also existed in the Roman and Hellenic world before Christianity was
really a factor.
KAS: It's an important book; I hope you'll be able to give
it some publicity.
WEBER: Well, I think we will.
KAS: Before we get into the latest developments in the
case of Ernst Zündel, the historical revisionist, pacifist, and prisoner
of conscience in Canada who's been jailed for over a year now because of
his historical and political views, I'd like you to tell me a little bit
about how Ernst himself is doing.
WEBER: Well, that's a good question. You know, it's just
outrageous, this treatment; he's been in solitary confinement. Now, he is
permitted to make collect calls from the jail, and he does write letters
and he receives letters, but there's a great deal about his treatment
that's just outrageous. Do you know that the light in his cell is never
turned off? He is never permitted to sleep in darkness. That alone just
seems like a chicanery, a stupid thing to weaken him. He's deprived of
many of the medicines, herbs, and vitamins that he has been taking over
the years and that's not good for him. He's complained about this and his
attorney's complained about it. He's not permitted the use of a pen; he
has to use a pencil. I don't know the pretext under which that particular
stupidity is imposed on him. He doesn't have a real desk to use. It's
humiliating and trying and psychologically harmful treatment that he's
been getting over this past year, and all in the case of a man who is not
even charged with a crime.
KAS: Are all of the detainees in this so-called detention
center treated in the same way?
WEBER: No. It's normally a detention center for people
whose immigration status for one reason or another is not clear, and the
treatment of Zündel is unique or special because he's a so-called
"national security risk." There are very, very few individuals
over the last several years who have been treated as a national security
risk in this way, so his treatment is one that's only applied to a very
small number of people. The only individuals who have been treated this
way in the last few years have been people with noted ties to terrorist
groups or in cases where there's really some substantive or at least
stronger reason to for the person to be held, and that's just not the case
with Ernst Zündel.
KAS: This keeping him under glaring lights all the time
sounds almost like some kind of torture. It's the sort of thing you hear
about in these films about American soldiers captured by the communist
Chinese in the Fifties.
WEBER: Right. It can't help but be psychologically wearing
over a long period of time -- for an entire year like that; that's
certainly true. Maybe there is some regulation that permits this thing,
but I can't see what possible justification could be cited for this kind
of treatment. And again, he's not even permitted a pen; he has to use
these little, stubby pencils; it's ridiculous. He writes letters; he has a
lot of time, of course, to write letters, and they're all handwritten in
pencil on these scraps of paper that he has.
KAS: I received one of his pencil-written letters along
with a beautiful drawing he made with those very same pencils. I've
received a report off your Institute for Historical Review newswire that
three U.S. Congressmen are now working on the Zündel case. What can you
tell us about that?
WEBER: Well, I got that news from Ernst's wife, Ingrid,
and of course, she's had to shoulder a tremendous burden in this whole
case since the arrest of her husband. In addition to what she used to do,
she now has to supervise this whole legal campaign as well. But she
doesn't want to give any names -- understandably, because, of course,
because congressmen are subject to the pressures of reelection and this is
a reelection year. But she says that she has been yelling and screaming
and cajoling -- figuratively, of course -- to get congressmen to look into
this case. Now this brings up an interesting point. First of all, they may
not do anything publicly, but Ingrid Rimland is a U.S. citizen. Because
she is a U.S. citizen she has certain rights, and her rights were
violated. The arrest of Zündel on the fifth of February of last year was
just unbelievable because it's almost unheard of for a person who's going
through the normal procedure -- as Ernst Zündel was -- to become a
naturalized citizen or to have a legal status in this country, who's
married to an American citizen, simply to be picked up and dumped over the
border, as he was. Now, because she's a U.S. citizen, she's calling on
congressmen to help in this case because of that violation of her rights,
and because of the precedent that this dangerously sets for other
Americans as well. Now, again, we don't know how brave people will
ultimately be, but it brings up an important point, and that is that much
more can be done within the system than many people often realize. It's
not a black-and-white situation where every congressman is corrupt or weak
or compliant and unable to do anything. An example was when Congressman
Jim Traficant stuck his head out for John Demanjanjuk and his intervention
ultimately played a very important role in getting Demanjanjuk back to the
United States. There are a few congressmen who do speak out courageously
against the power of the establishment, for example on the Iraq war -- Ron
Paul of Texas comes to mind -- so there are some exceptions. But anyway, I
really can't say anything more in detail about what's happening, but it is
encouraging that for the first time in the past year, three congressmen
are -- hopefully -- looking into and working on this case.
KAS: Well that is very good news indeed. The IHR also
publicized the fact that another establishment newspaper in Canada has now
come out, at least to some extent, in favor of Zündel. Can you tell us
about that?
WEBER: Yes, that's a really important development. The
leading newspaper of Canada, its most influential paper -- it's like the
New York Times of Canada -- is the Globe and Mail. It's published in
Toronto and it's a venerable paper. It's been around for a long time and
it speaks with great authority, and when it comments editorially its voice
is listened to. Well, it published an editorial in the edition of March
6th, and the editorial came along with a long article about the Zündel
case by their legal affairs writer, Kirk Makin, who interviewed Zündel.
The article, just by laying out the facts of the case, was sympathetic.
The article wasn't intentionally sympathetic, but just the more people
know about the case, and the more the facts about the case are known, the
more any objective person, I think, will see the injustice that's being
carried out against him. Anyway, the editorial strongly affirmed, as some
other periodicals have in Canada as well, that he's being held unjustly on
a pretext. Now, they're not flattering to Zündel. They regard him as a
nut and an obnoxious fellow, but the point is -- and this is the important
thing -- the knowledge that the treatment of Zündel is a dangerous thing
for everybody in Canada; that there's no real valid justification for the
claim that he's a threat to the national security of Canada. It says he's
held on a bogus "guilt by association pretext." The editorial
says he poses no risk to people or property, and the paper pointed out
what I and Paul Fromm and Ingrid Rimland and others have pointed out: that
Zündel has never been charged with a violent crime and he doesn't urge
any others to commit violence. And the paper finally concluded the real
danger to Canadians does not come from individuals like Zündel, but
"from a government that casually discards their most precious
rights," and that carries a lot of weight. Now, of course, an
editorial like this does not itself free Zündel, but it makes it a lot
easier for those people who do hold power -- the judges and prosecutors
and others in this case -- to act with justice and common sense to release
him or to do what's right, because they can always refer back to a voice
as authoritative as Toronto's Globe and Mail.
KAS: Indeed. Is your interpretation of that editorial that
they were actually calling for freedom for Zündel?
WEBER: They're saying he's being held unjustly; they say
that in the editorial, and that's just obvious. Canada has no compelling
reason to hold this man, and he's being held -- ultimately -- because
Canadian Jewish groups are furious at Zündel and don't forgive him for
the victory he won in the long, drawn-out legal battle that he fought
against these Jewish groups back in the1980s that actually increased the
rights of all Canadians as a result. An archaic law that made it a crime
to circulate what was called "false news" was thrown off the
books by the Canadian Supreme Court and Zündel was vindicated. The
Supreme Court ultimately affirmed the arguments that he and his attorneys
had been making for years. I witnessed it personally: these Jewish groups
in Canada just would not rest. They were absolutely determined to get him,
and the proof of that was that even though he, through this legal action,
made it possible legally to publish booklets and other things in Canada
questioning the holocaust story, these same Jewish groups turned right
around, and then tried to get him punished for circulating these very same
things on the Internet. It's like double jeopardy, it's incredible. The
main thing was that Zündel had reprinted a booklet called Did Six Million
Really Die? and finally this became unquestionably legal in Canada as a
result of his legal action. But these same groups then came around and
said, "No, he's got to be punished because this same booklet appears
on the web site that's actually headquartered or centered in the United
States of America. It's unbelievable! And the sheer malice, the spirit of
revenge that animates these people was obvious in the hearings in Canada,
at which I was one of the witnesses who testified on behalf of Ernst
Zündel.
KAS: If Zündel were freed in Canada, what would his
status be? He would still face the difficulty of getting back to his wife
in the United States, would he not?
WEBER: I was just going to say, it's a double-pronged
difficulty. He has to get out of jail in Canada and he has to be able to
come back to the United States. When he was deported in February of 2003,
the U.S. government kicked him out along with a declaration that he wasn't
legally permitted to come back to the United States for twenty years. Now,
that's why it's very important that Ingrid -- his wife -- and other people
are working on this case here on the United States level as well. It's
unclear what would happen if he were just suddenly released. I suppose he
could go to some third country, but what the Zionist Jewish groups in
Canada are demanding is that Canadian officials put him on an airplane and
send him off to Germany, where he would be promptly put in jail in that
country on the basis of these strange laws that exist there, these
anti-free speech laws that make it a crime to question one chapter of
history, namely the Jewish holocaust story. So, that's why it's really
important that this battle be fought not only on the north side of the
U.S.-Canadian border, but also on this side as well.
KAS: Now, the anti-neocon radicals at Counterpunch
magazine, who would certainly find little to agree with in Ernst Zündel's
life's work, have also issued a powerful call for his persecution to end,
even stronger than the one from the Globe and Mail, isn't that right?
WEBER: Right. There was a two-page piece, of course
lengthier too than the editorial, by an American writer named Alan Cabal.
I think he's on the east coast now, but he used to live in California, and
he's been following the case for some time. The piece is really put in
terms of free speech, which is, of course, the main point of the battle
right now. Counterpunch is much better known in its online version. It's
widely read and has a lot of influence. It's generally leftist in its
outlook. This article appeared in the print version of the magazine, the
February 1st-15th issue, and much of the article just simply lays out the
whole Zündel case, but he does it in a sympathetic way. In fact, the
article's headline sort of tells you: it's called The Persecution of Ernst
Zündel. But the article finally concluded -- and this is what Cabal
writes, "The persecution of Ernst Zündel has been and continues to
be both relentless and utterly ruthless. This most recent and ongoing
episode flies in the face of a thousand years of Anglo-Saxon law. The man
may hold provocative views, but he is a committed pacifist. He is guilty
only of expressing an unpopular viewpoint. For him to be held in solitary
confinement without having even been charged with a crime and without bail
for a year, while the court proceeds against him is an affront to justice
and public decency that goes far beyond anything that Mr. Zündel has to
say." And that's in fact the truth and it's very gratifying to see in
that kind of forum an article of such clarity and eloquence appearing.
KAS: Well, I'm glad to see that -- people coming from a
leftist perspective also interested in civil liberties and seeing what's
done to Zündel as a very great threat to all of our freedoms.
WEBER: Over the weekend there were demonstrations on
behalf of Zündel. The point is that it was a broader coalition. It is a
broadening one, and it's being fortified, as I said, by the willingness of
people who really have no real interest particularly in Ernst Zündel's
views about history or Germany or anything else to support his case
because the treatment is a danger to others. But I was going to say,
there's really a broader thing, all around the world. There's a worldwide
coalition against this monster, this tremendous power that was behind the
war in Iraq, behind imposing a kind of U.S. and Zionist hegemony
everywhere, and that has gotten support -- as everyone knows -- broadly
all over the world, and that's something that is enormously gratifying.
People may disagree about all sorts of other issues -- on religion, or
society, or culture, or race -- but there's a common interest everywhere
in opposing these threats to all of our interests, and I think it's
vitally important. We've seen this in the worldwide opposition to the Iraq
war: this coming together of people who hold views of every possible
range, who nonetheless are outraged at what's going on in the world and
are determined to fight this common enemy.
KAS: Has your level of hope, Mark, risen for Ernst Zündel
now?
WEBER: Well, not only has my level of hope risen, but more
pertinently, Ernst's and that of his wife have also risen. These recent
developments are the most encouraging things that have happened in quite a
long time. It was very discouraging -- it still is -- that there wasn't
much movement for a long time, but these recent developments are
encouraging. There's another thing that's happened, too, that I should
mention. Some documents that were obtained recently show that the Canadian
equivalent or counterpart of the FBI and the CIA -- it's called CSIS, the
Canadian Security and Intelligence Service -- was colluding with American
officials to get Zündel, to find a reason to get him before his arrest
more than a year ago.
KAS: How did you find that out?
WEBER: Those documents I believe were obtained through the
Freedom of Information Act. I can't say that for certain, but they have
been checked out.
KAS: These are internal memoranda?
WEBER: Internal e-mail messages. On our website there's a
notice which provides a link to the Zündel site, which actually has the
texts of these documents. Those are important. Again, they don't in and of
themselves free Zündel, but they do make it more embarrassing for the
Canadian authorities and the American authorities to hold him, because
they show the political agenda behind the campaign to get Zündel. That's
important, because the more people know about this, the more people know
about history and about current affairs -- not only in this case, but
around the world with the Iraq war, with the Israel-Palestine conflict and
so forth -- the better. That's why this worldwide campaign for
enlightenment -- which, of course, you play an important role in -- is of
the utmost importance.
KAS: We'll continue our interview with Mark Weber,
Director of the Institute for Historical Review next week, when we'll
explore Ernst Zündel's contributions to Western civilization and human
freedom and the potential positive consequences of Jewish arrogance and
miscalculation in this changing world.
The text above is based on a broadcast of the American
Dissident Voices radio program sponsored by National Vanguard Books. It is
distributed by e-mail each Saturday to subscribers of ADV-list.
