Here is part IV of the Zundel in Russia series, starting with the sub-heading:
Stalin and Hitler
Another big surprise for me was to learn that nationalist Russians, at least the ones I met and spoke with, put Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler on virtually the same level. Whereas we think of Stalin as a tyrant and murderous thug, the Russians speak of him with lots of nuance, shades of gray and many explanations.
They regard Stalin as a stern ruler who brought backward Russia into the 20th century, who brought the downtrodden Russian masses, virtual serfs, into the modern world. Their fathers or grandfathers had told them how, because of Stalin, they could go to school for the first time, how they received modern medical services, and so on. Stalin made all that possible, they all told me.
In the Russian context today, nationalists regard Stalin almost as a National Socialist. There are many similarities between the policies of Stalin and Hitler, I was told. Each eliminated class barriers, elevated humble peasants and workers, and made it possible for ordinary people to become officers, professional people, university professors, and so forth.
When I piped up to ask, "but what about Stalin's persecutions?," they would respond: "Oh, you mean of the Jews?" That ordinary Russians suffered terrible persecution, and were murdered by the millions under Stalin, well, that's unfortunate, (they seem to say). But they were glad that he cleaned out many of the original Jewish Bolsheviks during the great "purges" of the 1930s, and replaced them with Slavic Russians. It's odd, but the Russians seem to be able to forgive Stalin for much of his brutality, while at the same time they can hold a deep and seemingly permanent grudge against the Jews who were around him, and who preceded him.
In numerous conversations, many Russians I spoke with regarded both Hitler and Stalin as tragic victims of history. Virtually to a man, they said that something must have happened - something that we still don't fully understand - to explain why Hitler went to war against Stalinist Russia. Everyone thought the German-Russian war was a great tragedy - a terrible mistake that should never have happened. Perhaps Russians spoke this way with me because I am a German and they wanted to build bridges. I don't know. Anyway, this view was a real surprise to me.
Russian 'Subhumans'?
Having been very anti-Communist all my life, and as one who is proud of Germany and the German record during the Second World War, you can imagine the heated discussions I had with these Russians.
Again and again a phrase came up in these talks, one phrase that really bothered the Russians with whom I spoke: Untermensch, "subhuman." This very unfortunate term, which means something like subhuman scum, was used in early German wartime propaganda to describe the Soviets.
In every discussion between and Russians and Germans (and perhaps any Westerner), these things loomed large: the German invasion of Russia, Hitler's war against the Stalin regime, the Untermensch phrase, and Germans looking down on the Slavs as second-class Europeans. Naturally, I sensed in all this a revisionist opportunity. I thought to myself: Gee, this is nothing. We can solve these problems in a jiffy.
With regard to the Untermensch term, I said that it was simply stupid to call Russians subhumans. I couldn't help but think this as I talked with all these fine-looking examples of Aryan manhood. I might mention that every Russian I met with was, racially speaking, a beautiful specimen - two meters tall, with blue eyes and blond hair. Compared to them I looked like a short, second-rate runt.
They became very quiet when I told them:
Look, I understand your objection to the term Untermensch. I admit that this was a stupid propaganda slogan, but you should understand it in the context of the time, that it was based on the behavior of Bolshevik revolutionaries who did in fact behave like subhumans. So you should not feel bad about this. If you didn't behave like Untermenschen, this doesn't refer to you.
But also keep in mind all the woman who were raped across eastern and central Europe, all the people who were killed, all the personal belongings that were looted and destroyed, all the houses that were torched, and all the victims of the postwar Soviet-run camps in eastern and central Europe. That wasn't the work of nice people. It's why you got a bad reputation.
Tomorrow: Part V of Zundel Visits Russia